Jasahan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 hey. So I addressed this a while back here: Have had some experience with benchtop HCM since then, and I definitely no longer want to go this route. Our recycled pallet-wood furniture is starting to take off, and I need a mortising option for mass production that is NOT a CNC. Looking at a slot mortiser or an overhead router. Seems overhead routers are more geared toward pin routing. Is this possible for chair parts? In my original post, people recommended loose tenon joinery. Is this a good idea for chairs? I've never done it with anything. Here is a pic of our chairs: They are very square, with only the lower bracing having a slight angle in one plane. They're for coffeeshops, etc. Tenon sizes are 3/8"W and 1/2"W, and range from 7/8" TO 1 1/4" long, and all are 3/4" Deep. (not sure on my tenon dimension verbage). So, which slot mortiser would you recommend? Do you know of any good videos of their operation? Does a slot mortiser or overarm router seem more applicable to my situation? anybody know of anywhere near St. Louis where I could see one? THANKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Is the a reason you ruled out the Domino? It would be a game changer for chairs like yours and handles angles well. The learning curve is pretty quick as well. You use a floating tenon rather than an integral tenon, but cutting two mortises with the domino is faster than cutting a mortise with one machine and a tenon with another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I agree with Mike - Domino. My second option would be the slot mortiser. I've owned or used all the options mentioned and was seriously shopping for a slot mortiser when I got the chance to use a Domino. I've never looked back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'm with Mike as well.. Prime spot for the domino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Check out Brett's mortising rig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Is the a reason you ruled out the Domino? It would be a game changer for chairs like yours and handles angles well. The learning curve is pretty quick as well. You use a floating tenon rather than an integral tenon, but cutting two mortises with the domino is faster than cutting a mortise with one machine and a tenon with another. Yes, there is a reason. But most of my views are coming from relative ignorance. My reason is that, from what I understand, I'd either have to construct some sort of jig, or individually mark each piece. I am making at minimum 100 of these bad boys by September, which is 2200 mortises (doubled if I'm doing floating tenons). Seems like it'd be easier to do the set up on one of those stationary machines. I'm assuming though that by your responses floating tenons do fine with the stresses of a chair. Keep in mind it's in a commercial setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Strength wise, the domino would work great. As for building them, it's way faster than you give it credit. By the time it takes you to set up one of your other choices, I could be done with a domino and have a dry fit. Suggest finding someone with one to test drive to fully understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Suggest finding someone with one to test drive to fully understand. I would suggest that, too. That's really my basic hangup. Everytime I do something, it's completely new. Up until now, most of our decisions have not been multi-thousand dollar investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I would suggest that, too. That's really my basic hangup. Everytime I do something, it's completely new. Up until now, most of our decisions have not been multi-thousand dollar investments. Well, for a chair like that you could get away with the 500 so, won't be as expensive.. I think they're running around $800.00 but, I haven't looked in a while. There's a few here from your area, maybe one of them could show you.. Or, find a FT dealer and ask them to show you.. Youtube also offers some pretty good demos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 +1 for the Domino. Absolute game changer. The other thing I could think that might be an option for you is the Leigh FMT but that has a much steeper learning curve, and a higher cost in the end. This would be best suited if you setup a couple of FMTs for each part that needed mortise and tenon. https://www.leighjigs.com/fmt.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Well, for a chair like that you could get away with the 500 so, won't be as expensive.. I think they're running around $800.00 but, I haven't looked in a while. There's a few here from your area, maybe one of them could show you.. Or, find a FT dealer and ask them to show you.. Youtube also offers some pretty good demos. Pretty sure my local rockler does demos. I will not miss the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Do check out the Domino. If you get the 500 as a kit you can use the center guide and really turn out stretchers fast. I'd suggest a dust extractor combination, which will put you over $1,000, but the speed will quickly pay off. I got mine during their reconditioned sale, so I saved a little, but I've never regretted spending the money. If you go to their website (for the domino) they have an article on building a chair with the 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 As a former domiskeptic, I would definitely recommend figuring out ANY way to test drive one. I come from the Dado blade tenon and hcm mortise camp. I've read the terms game changer so many times that I started to gloss over. Recently, a buddy bought the XL version for building huge slab tables and benches. He gave me the 20 minute domino 101 and I war not just impressed, I wad amazed at the speed, strength, and ease of use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I hear what you all are saying about the wonders of the domino. But please be sure to realize: we're talking mass production. So whatever it is, it has to be "easily" reproducible. Like I said, I'm making at minimum 100 by september (at least that's the goal). Maybe that's a crazy dream, but that's what we're working towards. Regardless of the finish date, there is a good chance when it's all said and done, we will sell 400 or so before we need different options for our market. And I won't be doing all the work. So I have to be able to show a guy and get him to do it in a couple days, at a pace conducive to this level of production. I do see how floating tenons remove the tenon variable, which potentiall simplifies things, but I can do those with the other tools as well. I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to get some good info. If you all know of good articles or videos related to the subject, please share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResidentEvil Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I'm not sure what the setup process or workflow would look like for any stationary machine you are looking at, but it would be really really simple and fast to make a couple jigs to get repeatable cuts with the domino. For example, take the stretcher between the front two legs. All you need is a really simple jig, take maybe 15 minutes to make, and you are ready for repeatable cuts all day long. Piece of ply with a strip along one edge to push the leg up against, then a spacer block to offset the domino at the perfect distance from the end. That's it. Sounds like you are going to try to find a demo and see what it's all about. That is a good idea, I'm guessing you will find that its much easier and faster than you are imagining it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I tend to overthink things (as anyone who has seen any of my posts already knows). This one is especially daunting because it's choosing a path, and it's going to be at least $1000. And it's considering a construction method I've never tried. Thanks for all the input so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 It is a chunk of change to put out for sure. I've never regretted the purchase. In fact, I also picked up the larger one this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Pretty sure my local rockler does demos. I will not miss the next one. Well you're gonna be waiting a while because Rockler lost their Festool account. The St. Louis Rockler has no Festool left in their store except a Kapex and CT vac. Head over to Woodcraft and those guys can give you a tour of the tool. That's what she said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I can't imagine any other other method would be faster. You need to lock the piece in some kind of jig regardless and the plunge action of the domino is very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 What Barron said. You're going to have some setup time with any of the methods you originally mentioned. The centering fixture that comes in the kit will take maybe two minutes to set up, but amortize that over the production run and it's nothing. Every slot mortiser I've ever used took a good bit of trial and error to dial in the width, stops, etc. With the Domino, it's a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Op, were you planning on having multiple tools set up with stop blocks in place and moving a "chair kit" from one place to the next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'm just not sure what you would find that is faster and cheaper. A multi router, once set up might be faster, but they cost more then the Domino (I believe), and to match the speed of the Domino you would probably need two, one for the stretchers and one for the frames. The Domino is actually designed for professional use, even though hobbiests like me own them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasahan Posted June 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well you're gonna be waiting a while because Rockler lost their Festool account. The St. Louis Rockler has no Festool left in their store except a Kapex and CT vac. Head over to Woodcraft and those guys can give you a tour of the tool. That's what she said. *GASP* Well, then it looks like I'll go to Woodcraft. I hate going there. It's tucked away back in nowhere and I pretty much always miss my turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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