Why do I need a big Table Saw?


theclaxton

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Hello, I'm Clayton and I'm new on these forums!  I was hoping that some of you more experienced folks could could lend a dimension to my dilemma.

 

So my current setup is a fairly small garage/shop (20'x25') that I park cars/motorcycle/6 bikes in when I'm not building something so my shop has to expand and contract easily.

 

About a year ago I finally bought and sold my way to a cabinet saw (a mini cabinet saw...Craftsman Pro 1-3/4 HP.)  It's plenty of power for me and what I work on.  Didn't want the hassle of 220 and only being able to plug it into one spot in my shop.  For my shop, this saw is huge, but I justified it with being able to have a good rip capacity (36")

 

Then recently, I discovered track saws.  They look amazing for my shop were it can be awkward to move a full sheet around.  Also, without a infeed and outfeed table big sheets are hard to push through a saw accurately.  I could add an outfeed table...but that is once again large.

 

So my question is.  If I can make high quality cuts on a portable saw (for it's capacity) and I get a track saw.  Why do I need a big saw?  I know my sled capacity will be less with the little saw, but I don't mind paying the price of having to add a saw horse to support large material when the need arises.  I'm also fine with custom building a fancier fence if need be for the little saw but wouldn't have time at first...so I'd have to use the fence that came with it.

 

My plan is to copy Ron Paulk (youtube) and with use some of my own ideas to build a roll around stand for the portable saw that will effectively give it an outfeed table all the time. So the little saw plus stand will take up about the same space as my big saw now, but be modular.

 

It's taken me a while to get to what I thought was my dream saw and I don't want to get rid of it to figure out I forgot something and I want it back.  I'll have to sell it to pay for the track saw + portable table saw.

 

Thanks for the help! Any insight would be appreciated!

 

 

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My experience is that accuracy and repeatability of setup are superior with a large cabinet saw.  You can also get great results with less expensive equipment but your setup will be more difficult and and time consuming.  So it comes down to where you want to spend your time and money.  I used a craftsman 1980 table saw for 25 years and had very good results.  When I had the money to purchase a cabinet saw my projects improve significantly and my enjoyment doubled. 

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I guess I should clarify a bit further.  I think that I will get a track saw no matter what since I like working with sheet goods so much.  But it will happen more quickly if I sell the cabinet saw.  So the setup is either big table saw + track saw, or little table saw + track saw.  If the shop was bigger it would be a no brainer.  Big saw + track saw.

 

I don't see myself cutting coves much...but dados and tenons will be often.  I should be able to do this with a portable saw, though more easily on a big saw.  Maybe the key would be a mini version of a fence like this on a portable saw.  I would still want it to be portable (move outside on nice days) but I'm fine with a slight weight gain.

 

FYI, the portable saw that looks the best out of the box to me is the Ridgid R4510.  I was also looking at the Bosch, and the Dewalt, but I liked being able to slide things on the fence, and the minute adjustability of bevel cuts on the Ridgid.

 

Maybe I should pick up a portable saw used and just try it out with a few cuts that would be more challenging (stuff that stresses the stiffness of the machine) if it sucks, I can always just sell it.

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For sure.  FWW did an article rating portable table saws and all the ones I'm considering cut through 8/4 hard maple just fine...but I'd still like to try.  

 

I'm not as worried about power as much as I'm worried about ability size wise.  The biggest worry that I can think of right now is how big of a sled I can use regularly.

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I would trade my truck for a rusted VW beetle before I went back to a portable jobsite tablesaw. Had one for years, made do with it, but accuracy was horrible, and it scared the shavings out of me every tme I used it. I still just have a contractor saw, Rigid 24241, but with the mobile base I can move it easily, and it is dead-on accurate. The cast-iron top gives me smooth operation. Don't shoot youself in the foot...

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Your not going to save much space I'd just keep what you have and save your penny's for a track saw. Really I wouldn't buy a track saw. It can't do anything you can't do with a regular decent circular saw. As a portable job site tool they are great but in a shop with a tablesaw they are really not needed.

 

I'm with Particle Board on this one.

My table saw is set up that I can cut down full sized sheet goods without having to trim them again if I so desire. I used to use a shop made track saw back when I had a contractor saw, but I haven't touched it since getting my cabinet saw set up the way I have it today.

 

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I'd definitely buy a high quality (Cast iron and induction motor for starters) smaller saw if one actually existed.  Doing a lot of crosscutting with sleds does no favors to my back given how far I have to reach over between the fence rail and the table.  If I had the space I would have a second saw with no fence rails on it just for crosscutting.  Maybe with the rise of track saws for dealing with sheet goods we'll see such a thing.

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==> Why do I need a big Table Saw?

 

There's quite a few long/detailed threads over on Festool Owners Group (FOG) covering track saw -vs- table saw, track saw + table saw, and just about any other permutation you might be considering...  Worth a look...

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I'll check that out for sure.

 

Just to be clear.  The decision was always big saw + track saw or little saw + track saw.  Not to replace a track saw with a table saw.  That's crazy.

 

And yes, my TS is the flattest thing in my shop, but it's just about the most expensive way to make a flat surface.

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I might be the odd man out on this thread but I use the TS75 all time. I do have a table saw but only a 1.75 HP saw. I really like the combination of the track saw and table saw. I use the TS75 all the time for hardwoods, more often then I use it for plywood. I just recently made a video where I used the TS75 and MFT/3 to cut a tenon. I like the combination of the two saws and think they work well together and dust collection is very good. Personally I would not consider a portable table saw and think you will quickly realize that you should have gotten a bigger saw. There is no way in heck I personally would rip 8/4 maple on a portable table saw. I don't even like ripping 8/4 maple on the 1.75 HP table saw. When I do I use a rip blade, riving knife and feather board. 

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Well, I'm headed to a big sale at Woodcraft this weekend, so here's hoping they mark down a track saw!

 

I'm starting to maybe see a market for people with small shops that need small saws with high accuracy...

 

Other than rip capacity and table size (table size being the biggest fault for me, as a sled would be very limited), what do you see on portable saws as being the biggest problem with them?  Would a really stiff repeatable fence fix things, or do you feel like they need stiffer internals as well to keep the blade straight during cuts to produce a good, accurate cut?

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Well, I'm headed to a big sale at Woodcraft this weekend, so here's hoping they mark down a track saw!

 

I'm starting to maybe see a market for people with small shops that need small saws with high accuracy...

 

Other than rip capacity and table size (table size being the biggest fault for me, as a sled would be very limited), what do you see on portable saws as being the biggest problem with them?  Would a really stiff repeatable fence fix things, or do you feel like they need stiffer internals as well to keep the blade straight during cuts to produce a good, accurate cut?

Personally I think little job site saws should be banned for this very reason. You cant replace a full sized table saw with a little job site saw and expect it to do the same job safely.

One of the things I really hate about the forum is reading "I'm a hobby guy so I don't need"............. If your performing the same tasks as the pros then you do need. It doesn't matter if your cutting one sheet of plywood on a table saw or a hundred sheets. You may not need the highest of quality but you do need the same style of machinery to perform the same task safely.

If your intensions are to chop up sheet good and you plan on using a tablesaw then you need a full sized saw. If your intensions are to partially break down your sheet goods then you can get away with a less than full sized saw, which is already what you have and any less is not the right tool for the job. If you want to skip the tablesaw all together for sheet goods then a tracksaw is a great option. But I still would not expect a job site saw to perform safely on larger hardwoods. They are good for smaller job site materials like trim, ripping down thin lap siding basically cutting down smaller finished material.

Bottom line is use the right tool for the job and keep all your fingers or you can improvise and become a statistic.

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Personally I think little job site saws should be banned for this very reason. You cant replace a full sized table saw with a little job site saw and expect it to do the same job safely.

One of the things I really hate about the forum is reading "I'm a hobby guy so I don't need"............. If your performing the same tasks as the pros then you do need. It doesn't matter if your cutting one sheet of plywood on a table saw or a hundred sheets. You may not need the highest of quality but you do need the same style of machinery to perform the same task safely.

If your intensions are to chop up sheet good and you plan on using a tablesaw then you need a full sized saw. If your intensions are to partially break down your sheet goods then you can get away with a less than full sized saw, which is already what you have and any less is not the right tool for the job. If you want to skip the tablesaw all together for sheet goods then a tracksaw is a great option. But I still would not expect a job site saw to perform safely on larger hardwoods. They are good for smaller job site materials like trim, ripping down thin lap siding basically cutting down smaller finished material.

Bottom line is use the right tool for the job and keep all your fingers or you can improvise and become a statistic.

Well put. I wish I could type a better response but my phone is not my favorite replying device ;)
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Personally I think little job site saws should be banned for this very reason. You cant replace a full sized table saw with a little job site saw and expect it to do the same job safely.

One of the things I really hate about the forum is reading "I'm a hobby guy so I don't need"............. If your performing the same tasks as the pros then you do need. It doesn't matter if your cutting one sheet of plywood on a table saw or a hundred sheets. You may not need the highest of quality but you do need the same style of machinery to perform the same task safely.

If your intensions are to chop up sheet good and you plan on using a tablesaw then you need a full sized saw. If your intensions are to partially break down your sheet goods then you can get away with a less than full sized saw, which is already what you have and any less is not the right tool for the job. If you want to skip the tablesaw all together for sheet goods then a tracksaw is a great option. But I still would not expect a job site saw to perform safely on larger hardwoods. They are good for smaller job site materials like trim, ripping down thin lap siding basically cutting down smaller finished material.

Bottom line is use the right tool for the job and keep all your fingers or you can improvise and become a statistic.

 

So removing large sheet goods from the equation assuming that someone with physical constraints (i.e. small shop) already has a track saw or a guided circ saw of some sort for that.  They cannot physically fit a large saw into place...and don't need the rip capacity of it (b/c of circ saw) nor do they need the table size (don't need big cross cut capability).  They just want to make accurate rips and tenons, etc... How is a job site saw un-safe?  Is it a power thing?

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Compared to a full size saw, jobsite saws don't have much operating space in front, so there's not much surface to get the work piece settled before it's into the blade.  They're also inherently very light, which equates to less stable unless anchored somehow.  Plus they're much louder, have less torque, aren't convertible to 220v, are made of lighter duty materials, are a bit less accurate, less reliable, less feasible to repair in the event of failure, accept fewer accessories.  Parts like wings, fences, and motors aren't readily interchangeable the way they are with many standard full size saws.  That's not to say that there isn't a place for portable saws...it sounds like a large saw would be a stretch for you, but for the sake of discussion, those are just some of the realistic drawbacks.  When portability is a must, a portable saw is hard to beat, but there are definitely a slew of disadvantages compared to a full size saw.  Aside from portability and taking up less room, there are few (if any) performance advantages in favor of a portable saw.   

 

Grizzly and General International both offer a very similar scaled down cast iron saw with a belt drive induction motor....they still weigh over 200# and are on the expensive side (what's not?), but they do fill an interesting niche.  

 

G0732:

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GI 50-090:

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In my experience the difference in portable vs stationary is often the difference between induction and belt vs direct drive motors. There are some great fence systems (certain DeWalt models for one) but the motors tend to fail faster and the bearings and arbors tend to wander sooner. This is a 'generally speaking' type of comment and you'll certainly see outliers.

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I have a little Black and Decker table saw (2 others including a Unisaw as our main table saw) shown in the link below.  I don't know the model #, or when it was built, or even if it's still available.  It was one my Dad bought.  It has a cast iron top, aluminum legs and fence arms.   I use it sometimes if we need a third tablesaw for some setup to run parts.  It's considered my portable saw.  It got carried down to a dock upside down on a masonry cart ( wheelbarrow with a flat bed) when we built a cantilevered roof over jetski lifts and a boat house. I'm pretty sure it weighs well less than 200 pounds in spite of the cast iron center part of the top.

 

This saw does okay, but this is the smallest saw that I would ever recommend that anyone should buy.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/72126/02233.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml02/02233.html&h=500&w=500&sz=18&tbnid=G6yuk_djJLxn4M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=90&zoom=1&usg=__IUe8U8U8jcwASScjehSngPBUjfM=&docid=Vnp1fWOBDsJPRM&sa=X&ei=J6tMUsuVMurA7AbepICYDw&sqi=2&ved=0CEkQ9QEwAQ

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