I didn't expect this...


Llama

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I have met Scott Phillips many times, as he is local to me.  In his defense, he actually is a very fine woodworker, but his show doesn't cater to most of us here, as it is directed to mostly the person who is more or less a beginner.  Unfortunately he also is confined to a 26 minute time slot, so he isn't always going to be able to show every detail of how to accomplish something. It would be nice if he could dedicate an entire episode to a technique, similar to what Roy often does, but that isn't where the ratings are for him.  On Rough Cut, Tommy did dedicate an entire episode to finishing.  The episode, while informative, as a bit boring, and I don't think it did all that well with the ratings, as he has not done anything similar since then.

 

One thing Scott pointed out when I most recently saw him speaking that it is never his intention to portray what he does as the only right way to accomplish a project, and said that whatever works for the individual, as long as it is safe for them, they should continue to do.

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I don't doubt that he has the ability to produce higher quality work than we see on TV, Mike, but it still begs the question...if he knows better, why does he do the things he does on the show if he doesn't do them in real life?  The pocket screws are a judgment call because it's certainly an "acceptable" way to build if you don't value traditional wood joinery...you can still produce structurally sound furniture that way so it's not necessarily "wrong."

 

But you don't use warped boards to build with, or use a ROS the way he uses one, or brush on shellac the way he does.  He could show the correct way to do it...if only for five seconds...then move on to the next step and show how to correctly do that...for five seconds, in order to squeeze a week-long project into a half hour show.  I don't need to see how he sands an entire table top...show me a 1 foot square section of it - the right way - and move on.  Kind of like how Marc condenses an entire Guild Build into a five minute "review" for the free site.  He's not going in depth but he at least shows proper technique on the parts that make the cut.

 

I'm not trying to slam the guy...I'd like to have a beer with him and I'm sure he could teach me things I don't know, no doubt.  But man, I can just think of so many other woodworkers who would be better for his job.

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It was not my attempt to come across as pejorative. However, I find his delivery to be very condescending. Maybe he is pressed for time, maybe he doesn't realize that he is talking down to people. And every single episode is like a Kreg infomercial. We get it, he likes Kreg, and it's ok. 

 

I happened to really like Tommy Macs finishing video. It is the one I have saved on my DVR. 

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One really clever aspect of the New Yankee Workshop was that it never felt rushed or as if you were missing any major steps.    It really made you believe you could build that table in 26 minutes.  I think it was a combination of good editing and genuine efficiency on Norm's part. 

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One really clever aspect of the New Yankee Workshop was that it never felt rushed or as if you were missing any major steps.    It really made you believe you could build that table in 26 minutes.  I think it was a combination of good editing and genuine efficiency on Norm's part. 

 

I agree with this! I liked how he had a glue up, and then came into the shop the next day with a different flannel on. :) 

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I agree with this! I liked how he had a glue up, and then came into the shop the next day with a different flannel on. :)

A different flannel and a very hearty "well, good morning."  It made you want to go get a cup of coffee and start scraping that glue off. 

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-->I'm not trying to slam the guy...I'd like to have a beer with him and I'm sure he could teach me things I don't know, no doubt.  But man, I can just think of so many other woodworkers who would be better for his job.

 

Yeah I think we all agree that if we are going to watch someone screw together things with a kreg jig , we'd much rather see Ana White doing it :)

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I don't have any idea who the majority of people named in this thread are.  I did meet Roy Underhill in the late '70s.  I was walking past a house in Hillsborough on my way to a guy's place that was selling slabs of Walnut.  I passed a house with a bunch of people building shave horses in the back yard.  I walked up to them and asked what they were going to do with all the shave horses.  The house was one Roy was renting.  He was just finishing up school, and was teaching a class with the students building the shave horses.  He took me through the house and showed me all the tools he had, which included much of the same stuff he's using today.  He had me use his treadle lathe for a little while.  He's still the same character today that he was back then.

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I love Norm, he is the reason I started woodworking.  I think it is bit unfair to make assumptions about what he liked or his techniques.  I don't think we know.  I am sure the decisions about what to make and how to make them had lot to do with TV.  His audience included lots of non-woodworkers.  My grandparents watched it, my grandpa could fix any car, but knew nothing of woodworking or carpentry.

 

His show was an crazy success story, just look at how many people say he was their first inspiration to begin woodworking.  I think his techniques and the "how" worked perfectly, his show was all about making woodworking approachable.  If he would have busted out the #5 Plane or a Dovetail saw then that would of been lost.

 

It is hard to argue with the results the show achieved, just because we have moved on to new or "more acceptable" techniques doesn't make what he did bad.  It was a different world when this show started, easy access to woodworking information was not a click away on google.  

 

I for one would love to have a conversation with him and get his opinion on this subject as well as ask him about in goals and inspiration for starting the show.  

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The intent of my post wasn't to come down on Norm. It was simply how he used a Shaker piece as an inspiration to build a German style bench. 

 

Yes, we got off on a rant about styles, and techniques. Nobody here can discount Norms value to this hobby we all love so much. I personally think he is responsible for bringing better tools into the market. By his TV presence alone, he built this hobby into what it is today. We have more people buying woodworking tools, and that brings better tools into the market, and also lowers the price. What a great thing! Better and more affordable. Can't be mad at Norm for too long.

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Norm's influence was not greatest in the fine furniture category. If anything, his influence was greater in the building trades. I think even beyond hobby builders, Norm inspired young buck rough framers to gradually migrate toward shop fixtures that bore some resemblance of finer techniques. I used things I saw him do to impact my efficiency in building false shutters and gable vents. In this way I agree with most of the prior posts on either side of this discussion. It is also important to realize that respect must be earned and Norm likely had very little control over his early shows.

I have never thought that Scott was abrasive but then I turn the volume off for Stumpy Nubs. In this way I think that tone and syntax probably factor in on a personality level. Any way you look at it this is a fascinating discussion. It makes me ask how my practices and conversations might inspire the next generation (or turn them off.)

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Since this was the first season they probably didn't want to stray from the formula for the show, which was go look at an antique and then Norm builds his version of it.  So it would make sense to go look at an antique workbench.  Maybe they couldn't find a local shop that had a bench like he wanted to build in the time they had to find one, maybe he just had a personal connection to this shop, or maybe it was just an excuse to go see a cool shop.  It's not the only time he went to go see an antique for inspiration and then used absolutely nothing about the antique in what he built.  He went to go look at Adirondack chairs and then built his version of his dad's version of them.  It follows the This Old House model of some of the time goes to building and some of the time goes to visiting places.  Later on they realized it was okay to just stay in the shop for a shop project.  So I don't really see the beef with his bench not being like the antique he went to visit.  I think the time spent there could have been better used to talk about how to beef it up to put a front vise on it, but that's the reality of tv production.  It's not a great bench that he built, but it was at least a good introduction to the concept of a wagon vise.  I bet he gave those benches away to some people who put them to good use.

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Mel, I know you where not doing anything. U where just making an observation. I just wanted to give my take on Norm more than anything. I have heard and read so many people put him down since I started woodworking. Just think it's silly. The guy is an icon who got a whole generation of woodworkers off the couch and into the shop.

His contribution should be celebrated!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free

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I used to spend a lot of time watching Norm too.  While I did pick up some tips and techniques, as well as some short cuts, it was more tool porn for me.  If Norm needed a tool for a project, he had it ... and I wanted it.  Still do as I doubt there are many of us non pros that have the kit he did.

 

Scott Phillips doesn't do much for me either, but I have a really hard time watching when Susie starts to screech.  Some people may like her voice.  For me it's fingernails on a chalkboard, another sound I can't stand.

 

I miss Joanne Liebler.

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What I loved and love about Norm is how accessible he made it seem. He was the guy you watched before you went out to your shed or garage and not your production workshop. He was the intro, and he fit that model perfectly. As he went along you did see the more specialty items like a moulding cutter.

I still prefer to watch episodes I've seen hundreds of times over most of the current stuff. Tommy Mac has very little camera presence, and the Woodsmith guys rely too much on a script. Marc seems the best of the new bunch, but the content there is well above what a lot can duplicate in both material and tool.

A polished presenter that makes stuff the weekend hobby guy can do. I miss it.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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