Secondary bevel or hollow grind chisels?

[Bill Tarbell]

I'm still in the beginning stages of refining my sharpening habits.  I currently am just sharpening the primary bevel but it definitely seems to take longer than i'd like.  I'm on the fence as to whether to add a hollow grind to my chisels or do a secondary bevel.  I don't really see much functional difference between the two so i'm not sure which way to go.  What do you guys do? 

[Jim DaddyO]

I bought the mkll sharpening jig at LV and use a micro-bevel.  I mostly use a 1000/4000 combo stone.  For coarser stuff I have a combo oil stone and sandpaper on a granite tile.  Perhaps not the most elegant solution, but it is the one I fell into.  Hollow grinding does not preclude the use of a micro bevel, but rather denotes the way the cutting edge was formed.  There are many ways to sharpen but all paths lead to the same place, 2 polished surfaces meeting at an angle.  

[Tom King]

I didn't answer the poll, because it's not an either/or for me.   I hollow grind because the wheel on my grinder is round.  An edge is never put to the grinder unless it has some damage to the edge that honing won't fix, or the profile needs changing.  I always use microbevels, whether with a guide, or by hand.

[Trip]

I'm with Tom -- no single answer... The decision is based on a lot of factors....

 

For instance, some of the sexy new metallurgies are prone to breakdown and should not have either a hollow-grind or secondary (a little item marketing folks tend to omit)… Same goes for laminations (think Japanese chisels)…

 

You also have edge size… For example, a 3/16” chisel shouldn’t have either a secondary or hollow grind…

 

Further, depends on how the chisel is used – one struck with a mallet needs more edge support than one pushed by hand…

 

Glad you’re capturing radius, makes a huge difference… Carving/turning folks like the Tormek system specifically because you get a 10+” radius… Again, one of those little facts that Tormek’s Marketing dept doesn’t quite highlight – that T3/T4 are really not that useful…

 

There are loads of other cases… I posted a rather lengthy breakdown on WTO about a year ago – but can’t seem find it… Hay Marc, has something changed in search? I can’t seem to find older posts…

[wdwerker]

I've got the old original Tormec. I use it to regrind chipped and massively dull edges. Then I use diamond and ceramic stones with my MKII honing guide to touch up edges. Rarely bother w microbevel except my low angle block plane.

[TerryMcK]

My MKII is only used to establish a primary bevel on chisels and plane irons. I do the secondary by hand.

I found an issue with the MKII when set to microbevel it would not do it exactly square. I've had it a while now so never sent it back. It works fine and square when at it's lowest setting. Doing the secondary by hand is really easy and quick.

[G S Haydon]

Use a grinder to get a 25ish grind, at the stone I lift to 30ish hone. However, small edge tools I just hone the whole bevel and likewise thin irons.

[derekcohen]

There are many, many ways to skin a cat. I do not expect that my sharpening method is best for all - perhaps not even best for a few. However, it has been evolving for me over a couple of decades, and a few months ago it moved to the next level. For me this is the Ultimate Grinding-Sharpening System.

 

The essence of the system is built around obtaining the best hollow grind possible, that is, one that leaves the absolute minimum amount of steel to hone. 

 

Link here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTechniques/UltimateGrindingSharpeningSetUp.html

 

Regards from Perth

 

Derek

[Tom King]

I've been using the exact same wheel that Derek shows in that article for about a year now.  I've had probably most things on the market for grinding over the years.  If you have not put any money into a grinding setup yet, I recommend skipping all the old standards of grinding setups, and going right to the top to start with, by getting a setup with a CBN wheel.  It's so fast with the 180, that I don't think any woodworker will need a coarse wheel.

[Yanis]

When I started up again one of the skills I was determined to master was sharpening. I have an 8" HS grinder with a Veritas Tool Rest and about 20 old chisels of various qualities and ages. Some Stanley, Marples various very old chisels from my Dad's workshop, mortising chisels from a huge old industrial machine (hand operated) my dad had. I spend a day using the Tool rest on a good quality white Aluminium Oxide stone, a container of water and a nice small square  practicing my honing on these chisels and got to the point where I could put a very straight and even bevel on a chisel from scratch. One of the Stanley chisels for instance (the 1 1/2") had about a 5 deg slope from new and it took ages to hone it out without burning the edge, but I got it perfect. After that I hand sharpened on some water stones using the hollow bevel as a hand guide and it came up very nicely indeed.

 

I think the key here is lots of practice with regular checking. The more gentle you are and more patient the better the result. I got the technique down pat much faster than I imagined. I am no where near an expert but with a few more sessions I am confident that my skill level with rise. I can still remember my high school teacher taking a chisel which had been butchered by one of us students and bringing it back to sharp with (what seemed at the time) just a few strokes across either side of the oil stone.

[Tom King]

Yanis,  I'm impressed!   I think too many people expect to be able to read a set of instructions, or watch a video, and expect to be able to do this stuff right off.   Yours is the best method, and at this point, I think you qualify as an expert with grinding, even if it was with one particular type of wheel.

 

My friends who work for NASA say they consider an expert to be someone who has done something once before, but they are always dreaming up ways to do something that has never been done before.  I classify someone as an expert in this craft to be someone who is capable of getting good results.

[mds2]

I didn't answer the poll, because it's not an either/or for me.   I hollow grind because the wheel on my grinder is round.  An edge is never put to the grinder unless it has some damage to the edge that honing won't fix, or the profile needs changing.  I always use microbevels, whether with a guide, or by hand.

 

This is my method as well.