Lee Bussy Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I have to be contrary...it's my nature. So...an OSS and a decent jigsaw...how much is that gonna be? Compare that cost to the cost of a 14" Grizzly bandsaw, and realize how much more you could do with that machine than a jigsaw. It's a poor choice, IMO. My jigsaw gets used to break down rough stock and to make cutouts within a field...that's it. A bandsaw is a shop staple...jigsaw and OSS are more luxury tools if you ask me. I'm sensing short-sighted thinking. But then again, maybe the work you plan to do isn't at all like the work I do. Good luck with your decision. I guess I don;t realize what I would use a bandsaw for in that context - because the only thing I am *missing* such a tool for is cutting perpendicular curves. I understand that I could do more - resawing for instance, but that sort of thing seems like a choice I could skip and just buy dimensioned lumber (to start). Lee With the rockwell, you can adjust the guides to help with the deflection. Since you are able to have better control of the workpiece it may produce a better cut than holding the tool, which brings in more operator error. I do believe that a higher priced jigsaw is better than lower price. I also believe handle type factors in. What I mean by this is I had a d handle jigsaw and I hated using it, because of eye dominance issue it was hard to see the cut line and at times led me getting closer to the blade than was really safe. I bought a barrel grip Festool trion and now I make more accurate and safer cuts with it. I can also use upside down depending on cut. I might see if I can go try a few different handle types of the better jigsaws then. To date I have always thought of them as something that cut "somewhere between two lines" than something to shoot for a line. But how often do you not need to sand to smooth curves and such after using a band saw? So the OSS really is being used either way. And for blade deflection how much is that in the jigsaw and how much is in buying good quality blades? Dunno ... I generally always buy good blades with anything so I'm going to guess the issue lies with the saw and the operator. I'm sure the dewalt would be good too, but I've had good luck with Bosch so I usually stick with them for smaller power tools. Cordless would be nice if you transport lumber in anything other than a truck and occasionally need to break down boards to get them into your car. Otherwise I'd say go corded. Have truck, at least I'm good there. Most of the time I'm pattern routing after a curve on the bandsaw or fairing it with rasps and sanding strips. I use the OSS fairly infrequently...it comes in handy for quick one-off stuff, but it's not capable of producing a fair curve, so I don't use it much for important profiles. See I have wanted to have something like that a lot - maybe it's something I will outgrow, dunno. This thread should have ended here... Mike was right to link Vinny...and Vinny was right in his analysis of his situation and his decision in that thread. One of those Rikon/Craftsman 10" band saws is more than enough to do some basic curve cutting and getting a sense of what a bandsaw can do...and they can be resold easily (as Vinny showed) or kept as a small curves-only saw when you get a big one later (as is being done by various forum members). JM2C Threads never die. Someone will see this in 2018 and argue with someone. At least it's lively in here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I guess I don;t realize what I would use a bandsaw for in that context - because the only thing I am *missing* such a tool for is cutting perpendicular curves. I understand that I could do more - resawing for instance, but that sort of thing seems like a choice I could skip and just buy dimensioned lumber (to start). A bandsaw is like the jack plane of machines...it does a ton of stuff. A good argument can (and often is) made that it's a more versatile tool than a table saw. Curves, obviously. Resawing (which is huge and takes your work into another universe), ripping thick or rough material, stopped cuts, tons of joinery techniques...the list goes on. I turn my bandsaw on more often than my table saw, believe it or not. And bonus...it's safer than the table saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 My 14" bandsaw was my first stationary saw. Then a table saw. And lately a SCMS. I use my bandsaw a lot, for every single project. Dang! I love that saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick A McQuay Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I said this before and it caused a ruckus but I'll say it again ... a cheap bandsaw is better than no bandsaw. I have two bandsaws. One is a $35, used 9" saw, that I have used the heck out of it. Truth be told it isn't a very good machine but it is serviceable and I have never regretted spending the money. You are always better off buying a good quality machine over a cheap machine but there are some machines that are better to own cheap than not own at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 This was an interesting read. OP, we can't tell you how to spend your money. In the end it's your decision. I agree that a cheap saw is better than no saw at all. I also agree that those small saw are inadequate for all but hobby crafts people. I also agree that you don't NEED a band saw but once having one, you will find it such a great tool to have access to. If you want a band saw, get a band saw. Cl is a great asset if your a bit mechanically inclined. The ridgid oss you linked to is a great unit. It's also half the price of a band saw. Add a decent jigsaw, another $200 and you're already about there. I get that you're trying to research but if you ask for honest input, you can't get combative when you don't like the answer. Like E. Said. This is a very expensive sport. Buying cheap will hold you back at some point be it your enjoyment factor when having to fix every mistake a cheap machine makes or simply not being able to do something you should because the machine is just not built for it. My $.02 , take it at face value and good luck. Let us know what you decide 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 This was an interesting read. OP, we can't tell you how to spend your money. In the end it's your decision. I agree that a cheap saw is better than no saw at all. I also agree that those small saw are inadequate for all but hobby crafts people. I also agree that you don't NEED a band saw but once having one, you will find it such a great tool to have access to. If you want a band saw, get a band saw. Cl is a great asset if your a bit mechanically inclined. The ridgid oss you linked to is a great unit. It's also half the price of a band saw. Add a decent jigsaw, another $200 and your already about there. I get that your trying to research but if you ask for honest input, you can't get combative when you don't like the answer. Like E. Said. This is a very expensive sport. Buying cheap will hold you back at some point be it your enjoyment factor when having to fix every mistake a cheap machine makes or simply not being able to do something you should because the machine is just not built for it. My $.02 , take it at face value and good luck. Let us know what you decide That's not me being combative, that's me trying to get past what people think I want/need and just see where it will fail me. From what I understand a cheaper bandsaw is likely to fail me in terms of capacity. After we got there I was trying to quantify what that capacity was, etc. Me combative looks a lot different, and I generally try to log off before I get to that point. It looks a little like that pic of Hunter Thompson in Eric's avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 From what I understand a cheaper bandsaw is likely to fail me in terms of capacity. After we got there I was trying to quantify what that capacity was, etc. Not only capacity but power to actually make a cut in hardwoods, quality of the cut needing a bit of sanding vs needing to be totally reworked, precision or a cut being able to hold to the line you're attempting to cut to, those small Saws will not be able to properly tension anything but a tiny blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barron Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Used Delta 14" bandsaws can be found for $200-$300 with a little searching. They were pretty consistent for a lot of years, so just focus on condition. The problems with your jig saw may be with the quality of the blade, I think Bosch has some pretty decent blades. The blade insert on your saw should be flat on top. Place the top on your plywood, trace the outline, cut with the jig saw and a sharp blade, moving slowly and staying outside the line. Instead of buying a sander, get a cheap rasp and to smooth things out, then use a flexible sanding strip to get to final size. Lastly, if you're cutting, by had saw, jig saw or band saw are not coming out the way you want, get some scrap and practice until you are happy with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Used Delta 14" bandsaws can be found for $200-$300 with a little searching. They were pretty consistent for a lot of years, so just focus on condition. The problems with your jig saw may be with the quality of the blade, I think Bosch has some pretty decent blades. One I found recently only had a 1/2 HP ... is that normal/acceptable? The blade insert on you saw should be flat on top. Place the top on your plywood, trace the outline, cut with the jig saw and a sharp blade, moving slowly and staying outside the line. Instead of buying a sander, get a cheap rasp and to smooth things out, then used a flexible sanding strip to get to final size. But ... but ... I want POWER tools! Lastly, if your cutting, by had saw, jig saw or band saw are not coming out the way you want, get some scrap and practice until you are happy with the results. I'd be HAPPY if money would just fall out of the sky - but that's a completely reasonable reality check. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 One I found recently only had a 1/2 HP ... is that normal/acceptable? But ... but ... I want POWER tools! I'd be HAPPY if money would just fall out of the sky - but that's a completely reasonable reality check. Thank you. pfff he meant scrap wood, for practicing your cuts... Take it easy, you're starting to sound like a troll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 pfff he meant scrap wood, for practicing your cuts... Take it easy, you're starting to sound like a troll... I think he was genuine here. He's saying that advice of practicing on scraps is a good reality check regardless of the tool...basically the "you can build almost anything with lesser tools if you know what you're doing" sentiment. I initially misread the all caps "HAPPY" as sarcasm but I do not think that was his intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 pfff he meant scrap wood, for practicing your cuts... Take it easy, you're starting to sound like a troll... I know what he meant - do you know what I meant? Personally, if I thought someone was going off the tracks a little and being rude I might tell them personally rather than admonish them in the open. I guess I learned to praise in public and correct in private. Different strokes. When I say "thank you" I mean thank you ... now if I say "Oh THANK YOU for helping me realize the error of my ways!", that would be sarcasm/trolling. I think he was genuine here. He's saying that advice of practicing on scraps is a good reality check regardless of the tool...basically the "you can build almost anything with lesser tools if you know what you're doing" sentiment. I initially misread the all caps "HAPPY" as sarcasm but I do not think that was his intent. Exactly, thank you. I mean it was sarcasm (about money falling out of the sky) because he said "happy". I was using it again in a sentence, saying something completely unrealistic would make me happy ... yeah, was humor. At least it was intended to be. I didn't think it was that obtuse and I can't really make "trol" out of it. Maybe I could have used better punctuation. Let's eat Grandma! Let's eat, Grandma! Me worrying about which power tool can cut an oval out of 1/2" stock while NOT being able to cut it well by hand is the height of irony - which Barron pointed out. So I was thanking him for bringing me back to earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I know what he meant - do you know what I meant? Personally, if I thought someone was going off the tracks a little and being rude I might tell them personally rather than admonish them in the open. I guess I learned to praise in public and correct in private. Different strokes. When I say "thank you" I mean thank you ... now if I say "Oh THANK YOU for helping me realize the error of my ways!", that would be sarcasm/trolling. Exactly, thank you. I mean it was sarcasm (about money falling out of the sky) because he said "happy". I was using it again in a sentence, saying something completely unrealistic would make me happy ... yeah, was humor. At least it was intended to be. I didn't think it was that obtuse and I can't really make "trol" out of it. Maybe I could have used better punctuation. Let's eat Grandma! Let's eat, Grandma! Me worrying about which power tool can cut an oval out of 1/2" stock while NOT being able to cut it well by hand is the height of irony - which Barron pointed out. So I was thanking him for bringing me back to earth. Ok. My bad. I guess I don't quite get you sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I don't read caps as sarcasm. I read them as emphasis with context determining whether or not sarcasm implied. Just musing, no critique intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris H Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 It's already been said by others, but I guess I am just adding my experience. I bought a bench top bandsaw, and yeah, it was too small for just about everything. I used it for cutting pen blanks (for turning) but other than that, it just wasn't made for normal full sized woodworking projects. I just tossed it in the garbage when we moved. It wasn't worth the effort to carry to storage and then to the new house. So, $100 or so wasted in hind sight. I eventually bought the Grizzly 14" with the riser blocks. I should have recorded myself putting it together solo...could have been youtube famous! So if you go that route, get a friend. Still one of my most satisfactory tool purchases. It was my first significant purchase from Grizzly and I have been back for a few thing since. I have my eye on the 8" jointer next, but I have to wait until the new shop is build. There is just no room in my garage shop atm. Obviously budgets are important, but I'd recommend against the bench top models, and hold out until you can get an upright stand alone model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Ok, here is one more option, one that many have found quite satisfactory:http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/homemade.html Go ahead. I dare you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Ok, here is one more option, one that many have found quite satisfactory:http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/homemade.html Go ahead. I dare you. Yeah I had seen that a few weeks back. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I mentioned ... somewhere in this thread that I was at a loss to be able to make nice/smooth 0-clearance inserts without a band saw. I think that's where we went to using hand tools (funny how that never occurs to me) and then straight off the rails. Anyway, I could not picture how I could use the old insert for a template for a router shaping. The answer, sadly, was me forgetting one thing: bearings can be on the top or the bottom of a flush cut: Source: http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/tablesaw/zero-clearance-insert/ So I feel like an idiot there, but hey - I am used to it! I sure didn't come here thinking I knew everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Ok, here is one more option, one that many have found quite satisfactory:http://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/homemade.html Go ahead. I dare you. How about the building of a 12" jointer using a planer head? That is one that strikes me as scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I mentioned ... somewhere in this thread that I was at a loss to be able to make nice/smooth 0-clearance inserts without a band saw. I think that's where we went to using hand tools (funny how that never occurs to me) and then straight off the rails. Anyway, I could not picture how I could use the old insert for a template for a router shaping. The answer, sadly, was me forgetting one thing: bearings can be on the top or the bottom of a flush cut: Source: http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworking-plans/tablesaw/zero-clearance-insert/ So I feel like an idiot there, but hey - I am used to it! I sure didn't come here thinking I knew everything! This is how I make them as well. I use a bearing guided bit with a bearing on both ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 How about the building of a 12" jointer using a planer head? That is one that strikes me as scary. I don't think there's anything he hasn't made from wood, save the actual cutting edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Keep in mind that your insert will proabably have a rod sticking out the far end that goes into the TS surface to hold it down. I wouldn't try to ride the bearing up and over it. Do the rest of the outline then finesse that part with hand tools, or flip the template end for end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 How about the building of a 12" jointer using a planer head? That is one that strikes me as scary. Allain Vallencourt ( the Woodpecker on You Tube ) made one from Wandel's design, and uses it in many of his videos, so I guess it is feasible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Keep in mind that your insert will proabably have a rod sticking out the far end that goes into the TS surface to hold it down. I wouldn't try to ride the bearing up and over it. Do the rest of the outline then finesse that part with hand tools, or flip the template end for end. Oh yeah ... I was wondering about that. I'm a little embarrassed to say I did not think about flipping it end for end. See - I need to change the way I am thinking. Allain Vallencourt ( the Woodpecker on You Tube ) made one from Wandel's design, and uses it in many of his videos, so I guess it is feasible! I wish someone would do a complete shop build by starting with ONE tool. If you have all those tools and make new ones, it's sort of redundant .. .why have two, three, four of something? I get that he just loves the challenges of making tools, but sooner or later someone had to start all this with a hand tool ... somewhere. Let's just say I won't be cutting hand dovetails anytime soon. Seen videos that make it look SO easy. Then I tried it. Ugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Allain Vallencourt ( the Woodpecker on You Tube ) made one from Wandel's design, and uses it in many of his videos, so I guess it is feasible! Yeah, and I can't understand that. It's OK for Mathias, he doesn't really care about tools, the man built his own everything, but Allan has tons of high quality tools from Festool, Veritas, etc. Why build a planer? I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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