Chet Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) I just picked up an issue of Fine Woodworking, I think it is a special issue because it is titled "Tools & Shops". I picked it up because they have a cover article about building a shaker style woodworking bench, which I am interested in doing. But after I got home with it I noticed that it also had an article reviewing six table saws, Sawstop, Grizzly, Powermatic, Baileigh, General International and Laguna. I haven't read the piece at this point because I am not in the market for a saw but I did want to let those that are looking know that there is an article out there that might help you make a decision. I did see that they gave the SawStop their "Best Overall" and the Grizzly the "Best Value". Edited November 17, 2015 by Chet K. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 This is the first issue I've read out of my year's subscription (as in, my subscription ran out 11/10.) and it made me wish I had gotten the Grizzly. They had some good info in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 They rated saws in the $1,500 range I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trip Posted November 17, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Roundup articles are helpful in comparing specifications and features. What they don’t do is document long-term reliability. The article gives you the 'day-one' picture... Gathering feedback from long-term owners will flush-out the canvas... Many tools run great out of the box, only to have problems later on...The other area is service -- not 'day-one service' where the company sends you a replacement part for shipping damage (which most companies are pretty good about), but service for the part that breaks five years down the line... Again, owner feedback is key... Edited November 17, 2015 by hhh 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) The other area is service -- not 'day-one service' where the company sends you a replacement part for shipping damage (which most companies are pretty good about), but service for the part that breaks five years down the line... Again, owner feedback is key... Any specific ideas on how to get this feedback? Searching for 'reviews' in this forum or elsewhere is difficult (hard to find, hard to know who to trust, they don't always specify whether it's still working well X years later, etc)...I'm looking to buy a new TS soon and have been going back and forth between the grizzly and the ridgid 4512. From what I've read about both saws, some people are happy, some people aren't... Edited November 17, 2015 by JosephThomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Any specific ideas on how to get this feedback? Searching for 'reviews' in this forum or elsewhere is difficult (hard to find, hard to know who to trust, they don't always specify whether it's still working well X years later, etc)...I'm looking to buy a new TS soon and have been going back and forth between the grizzly and the ridgid 4512. From what I've read about both saws, some people are happy, some people aren't...I just ordered the Grizzly, after playing with the Delta at Lowes it just felt too flimsy to me. I'm hoping for a little better build quality from Grizzly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 We're you able to get your hands on the ridgid? I have yet to find a "floor model"... Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 None of the local HD's had one on display. I figured it would be similar build quality. The fence is what really put me off of the Delta. Figured for a couple hundred more I could have a much better fence and a more stable machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Is this for the G0715P? Or another? I'm too lazy to turn the light on and look at what model they reviewed even though the magazine is 20 inches to the left. I've been reading reviews on table saws for 9 months. Two months trying to decide what to get, then 6+ months trying to confirm I got the right one. I feel like the major plus of the Rigid is the dust collection (compared to Delta.) But that alignment problem they swear is fixed - isn't as fixed as one would like. I frequent reddit.com/r/woodworking and see a great many people reporting the issue with brand new saws. Who wants to get home, put a saw together then realize you have to take it back? That's awful and would scare me away. I got the Delta 36-725. It's pretty good except for the steel wings. They are not flat and getting not flatter. They slope down quite a bit now. I'll be replacing them with cast iron. All in all I wish I had gotten a G0715P. None of the local HD's had one on display. I figured it would be similar build quality. The fence is what really put me off of the Delta. Figured for a couple hundred more I could have a much better fence and a more stable machine. That's weird since the fence is the reason many recommend the saw. It's the reason I bought it. BUT - that is compared to the Rigid model. Basically a $500-600 price point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Is this for the G0715P? Or another? I'm too lazy to turn the light on and look at what model they reviewed even though the magazine is 20 inches to the left. I've been reading reviews on table saws for 9 months. Two months trying to decide what to get, then 6+ months trying to confirm I got the right one. I feel like the major plus of the Rigid is the dust collection (compared to Delta.) But that alignment problem they swear is fixed - isn't as fixed as one would like. I frequent reddit.com/r/woodworking and see a great many people reporting the issue with brand new saws. Who wants to get home, put a saw together then realize you have to take it back? That's awful and would scare me away. I got the Delta 36-725. It's pretty good except for the steel wings. They are not flat and getting not flatter. They slope down quite a bit now. I'll be replacing them with cast iron. All in all I wish I had gotten a G0715P. That's weird since the fence is the reason many recommend the saw. It's the reason I bought it. BUT - that is compared to the Rigid model. Basically a $500-600 price point. It's probably as much the fault of the knuckle head kid that put it together at Lowes, but the two piece construction seemed a bit lackluster. I don't doubt that one that is assembled correctly with some Loctite would feel much better. Edited November 17, 2015 by xxdabroxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 It's probably as much the fault of the knuckle head kid that put it together at Lowes, but the two piece construction seemed a bit lackluster. I don't doubt that one that is assemble correctly with some Loctite would feel much better. That could be. I can say on mine that there is something wonky. The wings are slanting downward bigtime. I'm pretty sure it's the wings themselves, but it could be the rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave's Not Here Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 I'm curious, what Baileigh model did they review and how did it fair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rustenbach Posted November 19, 2015 Report Share Posted November 19, 2015 It seems like all of Grizzly's tools are a great value! All their tools seem to be solid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leans Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I got into woodworking 1 year ago and my first purchase was a Grizzly table saw, the model is G1023RL. It's a 3 hp and it was on sale for $1,250. It might be a little more than the saws being considered on this thread but there is nothing it can't cut (most of my projects are out of walnut). I would tell anyone looking for a TS to seriously consider this saw, Jet is around 2,300 and the Powermatic and SawStop offerings are around the 3k for the same specs. From what I understand, the model of saw I have is made in the same factory as the Jet and Powermatic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-MattK- Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm curious, what Baileigh model did they review and how did it fair?it was a review of "compact cabinet saws" for the home shopthey reviewed the Baileigh TS-1044H ($1,595)they liked the built-in locking wheels - good for a shop where you need mobilityThe liked the digital read-out on the fence"dust collection was fair"miter slot wasn't parallel with blade at 45 deg. but it was easy to fix b/c the trunnions are mounted to the cabinetPower switch is too low (requires you to lean over too far)blade guard and riving knife lock in place with a star knob - "not difficult but less convenient than" sawstop/grizzly/powermatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 From what I understand, the model of saw I have is made in the same factory as the Jet and Powermatic...Maybe the cabinet, but that's about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leans Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 The entire saw are made/ assembled in the same factory, that is not to say they are the same machine... What I meant was that machinery made in Taiwan is preferred over China which some of Grizzly's other models are made in. I chose my saw because it was 1k less than JET and 2k less than Powermatic and made in the same factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted November 23, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 "made in the same factory"That and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee.Not denigrating Grizzly or your choice - I have a Grizzly jointer and OSS. Just saying, made in the same factory means approximately nothing, IMO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 The differences in machines are the parts that matter, each company has different engineering specs. For instance, the motors in a Jet are different than the motor in a Grizzly, the electronics/switches, the trunnion, arbor, etc are all different. The tables have a different acceptable milling tolerance from the manufacturer. Not knocking grizz or jet, etc. They all do the job, but there are differences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trip Posted November 23, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 With stationary woodworking tools, you generally get what you pay for... I know that phrase is somewhat trite and may rankle a bit, but it doesn’t change the fact that there are differences between Grizzly, PM, Jet, et al... We’re talking Asian-sourced kit – Euro kit is a different animal...While two brands may be assembled in the same plant, that doesn’t mean they are made from the same components... For some time, the idea that all Asian-sourced tools are the same, just receiving a different paint job was all over the internet. Indeed, early WTO posts were littered with this notion. After all, why not save $2K and get a PM -- just painted a different color? This view was reinforced by comparing parts explosions – many of the same parts had the same part numbers (this was particularly obvious when comparing Jet and PM -- when you ordered a PM replacement part, you provided the Jet part number)...So brands share components – does that make them the same? Deeper examination exposed some important differences: trunnions, arbor assemblies, speed-rated bearings, and motors – i.e. the drive train.So ‘the guts’ tend to be distinct... So while brands may look the same and share many components, they may be quite different under the hood...Another big difference: after-market support. How long is the warranty? One year, three or five? How long does the mfg inventory parts past service life of the machine? For some, its ten years past end-of-life and for others, it’s ‘until parts run-out’ (typically zero). Historically, one reason to get Jet: PM carries parts for between five and ten years past end-of-life... For some machines, 60%-80% of Jet/PM parts are a direct replacement...When you first take delivery, most Asian-sourced machines are very similar in performance... The differences tend to show-up over time... You’ve got guys in commercial shops beating the hell out of PM66s for decades --- and still no slop in the trunnion or arbor assemblies... That’s not going to happen with value-proposition gear...For many hobbyists, the amount of play in the trunnion five years down the road doesn’t matter – it doesn’t change the final outcome – the sharpness of their smoothing plane iron has a much bigger impact... And that’s true, so there’s nothing wrong with value-gear... But for others, they want kit that performs reliably year-in and year-out for a decade or three -- they don’t want to fix, adjust or tinker in any way – they just want it to work... And for them, value-gear is probably a mistake... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 With stationary woodworking tools, you generally get what you pay for... I know that phrase is somewhat trite and may rankle a bit, but it doesn’t change the fact that there are differences between Grizzly, PM, Jet, et al... We’re talking Asian-sourced kit – Euro kit is a different animal...While two brands may be assembled in the same plant, that doesn’t mean they are made from the same components... For some time, the idea that all Asian-sourced tools are the same, just receiving a different paint job was all over the internet. Indeed, early WTO posts were littered with this notion. After all, why not save $2K and get a PM -- just painted a different color? This view was reinforced by comparing parts explosions – many of the same parts had the same part numbers (this was especially obvious with Jet and PM -- when you ordered a PM replacement part, you provided the Jet part number)... So brands share components – does that make them the same? Deeper examination exposed some important differences: trunnions, arbor assemblies, speed-rated bearings, and motors – i.e. the drive train. So ‘the guts’ tend to be distinct... So while brands may look the same and share many components, they may be quite different under the hood...Another big difference is after-market support. How long is the warranty? One year, three or five? How long does the mfg inventory parts past service life? For some, its ten years past end-of-life and for others, it’s ‘until parts run-out’. Historically, one reason to get Jet: PM carries parts for between five and ten years past end-of-life... For some machines, 60%-80% of the parts are a direct replacement...When you first take delivery, most Asian-sourced machines are very similar in performance... The differences tend to show-up over time... You’ve got guys in commercial shops beating the hell out of PM66s for decades --- and still no slop in the trunnion or arbor assemblies... That’s not going to happen with value-proposition gear...For many hobbyists, the amount of play in the trunnion five years down the road doesn’t matter – it doesn’t change the final outcome – the sharpness of their smoothing plane iron has a much bigger impact... And that’s true, so there’s nothing wrong with value-gear... But for others, they want kit that performs reliably year-in and year-out for a decade or three -- they don’t want to fix, adjust or tinker in any way – they just want it to work... And for them, value-gear is probably a mistake... Fantastic comment. One way to look at it is.. do you really think you can game the system and get something for half the market value? These guys are here to make money. They know what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Leans Posted November 23, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I did not mean to get a discussion going about which saw is better but I read the post and was under the impression that we were talking about saws of good value. I just wanted to let others know that I have found my grizzly 3 hp saw to be excellent and I think it's a good buy for a hobbyists. In one year the saw has produced work that has allowed me to pay for all my other tools. As many know, getting into the hobby can be intimidating and I just want to let people know what worked for me... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I did not mean to get a discussion going about which saw is better but I read the post and was under the impression that we were talking about saws of good value. I just wanted to let others know that I have found my grizzly 3 hp saw to be excellent and I think it's a good buy for a hobbyists. In one year the saw has produced work that has allowed me to pay for all my other tools. As many know, getting into the hobby can be intimidating and I just want to let people know what worked for me... Thanks for clarifying, I'm glad it's working out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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