Popular Post Trip Posted December 1, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Keep dreaming guys...I’m going to be buried with my tools... Well OK, just the hand planes... Although maybe I could be laid-out on the jointer for the wake... That’s an idea.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Keep dreaming guys...I’m going to be buried with my tools... Well OK, just the hand planes... Although maybe I could be laid-out on the jointer for the wake... That’s an idea.. The fact that you could be laid out on the jointer means that either you're really small or I'm really jealous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Well, they'd have to remove the fence... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I agree. I ran all 20 amp for all 240 and 120 plus one 40a circuit for the dust collector. Mike, if my memory serves me right, you have a 3hp grizzly DC. That called for a 40 amp breaker??Again, I'm reading the specs for a Oneida pro 2000 5hp collector and they are saying 19.5 amp draw. This just doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Mike, if my memory serves me right, you have a 3hp grizzly DC. That called for a 40 amp breaker??Again, I'm reading the specs for a Oneida pro 2000 5hp collector and they are saying 19.5 amp draw. This just doesn't make sense to me.Yes I have the Grizzly G0441 which the specs say 22A and to use 40A circuit for startup. It will slightly dim the lights in my shop sometimes when starting. I've read that some people have done tests and it's closer to a 5HP motor than 3HP. And some says it's just inefficient. Either way it sucks like crazy. I have also read that people have installed on 30A circuit with no problems, but since I hadn't put up my walls yet, didn't want to chance it to save a few bucks. My guess is that Oneida has an American motor which is probably more efficient. http://www.grizzly.com/products/3-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/G0441 Edited December 1, 2015 by estesbubba Forgot link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Thanks, makes sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Depending on the motor’s’ efficiency and how you do the math, 19.5a is approx. the no-load 5HP draw at 240v.Depending on the motor’s’ efficiency and how you do the math, 32a is approx. the max 5HP draw at 220v.The long and short of it, if the plate says 32a, you use a 40a branch. You follow the plate, not the manual. I know you guys want to download the manuals and pre-plan your shops... But what’s stamped on the plate governs. You can argue with the inspector until the cows come home that the manual says X, but if the plate says Y, the inspector won’t care. And they do check... Further, Mfg’s make in-line changes all the time, and the manuals may or may not be updated to reflect them...One reason to use a 40a branch on a 5HP motor is surge... I use high quality breakers designed for motor loads, they handle surge. I never worry about it... I use 30a on 5HP loads... If you guys get Joe-DIY breakers, then 40a may be needed. It's why PM's 5HP tools specify 60a breakers in their manuals -- they can't control if the user buys junk electric.I know you guys think I drink the electric kool-aid --- that’s OK with me... But there’s a lot of method behind the madness – and a lot of experience... One reason to up-gauge wiring: after the sheetrock’s hung, it’s easy to change the breaker and device, but really hard to change the branch wiring... But If you think you might get a 5HP tool, you may need a 40a branch, so if your run a 10g branch, you'll need to change it -- and you won’t know until the tool hit’s your shop... Would I install 40a devices or breakers -- No. I’d install 30a and only change it if I tripped the branch... Most (maybe all) my 5HP single phase gear is on 30a breakers and I haven’t tripped a breaker yet... And before you all bellyache on the cost of copper... Copper is cheap compared to labor and very cheap compared to rewiring after the rock’s hung...Would I use a 40a branch on a DC? No... The DC’s load is continuous, on the lower-end of the load curve and doesn’t change that much.Would I use a 40a on a 5HP planer? That’s a more interesting question. With a helical head, yes. With a knife head, maybe. Edited December 1, 2015 by hhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Do the best you can for planning and placing circuits for what you think you need......BUT........put in a sub panel with more spaces than you think you need, and put in a wall panel right below the box that you can remove-like plywood held in place with screws, and a space below that that you can also remove (or hinge out)as a place to put any future receptacles that you might need. You could possibly hinge the whole thing below it, but it needs to be so you can add boxes into it later if you need to. This greatly simplifies adding other circuits of any size later.It doesn't scare me a bit to run a 30 amp tool on a 50 amp circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted December 1, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) ==>I think Trip drank too much electrical gatoradeLet's see, we've got 1x3HP, 4x5HP, 2x7.5HP, 1x10HP (or maybe it's 12, I forget), and I forgot, 1x15HP.. It's a mix of 1p and 3p. It was much cheaper to purchase a single big spool of 3c+g and run everything off that than shorter lengths of individual gauges and mix of conductors... Method to the madness... Ok fine, I'll be the one to ask. Trip, a few questions, and rest assured they all come from a place of awe and respect:1. How long have you been woodworking?2. How in god's name do you have enough time to do all this woodworking (20-30 projects with just ARS? I look forward to a decade from now when maybe I'll have 20-30 projects under my belt total), a full time job (I assume), cave diving, boat maintenance and repair (I gather from previous threads), and educating all of us on electrical minutiae all day?? Is your day 24 hours long?3. Can you post a project or two? I need to see what's coming out of this beast of a shop. Extra points for period pieces, because that's my taste and screw everyone else, especially @Eric. 4. Can we get a goddamn shop tour please???? Edited December 1, 2015 by bgreenb 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Ok fine, I'll be the one to ask. Trip, a few questions, and rest assured they all come from a place of awe and respect:1. How long have you been woodworking?2. How in god's name do you have enough time to do all this woodworking (20-30 projects with just ARS? I look forward to a decade from now when maybe I'll have 20-30 projects under my belt total), a full time job (I assume), cave diving, boat maintenance and repair (I gather from previous threads), and educating all of us on electrical minutiae all day?? Is your day 24 hours long?2. Can you post a project or two? I need to see what's coming out of this beast of a shop.3. Can we get a goddamn shop tour please???? +1Throw in some wiring pics for good measure, just to keep the thread on track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 2. How in god's name do you have enough time to do all this woodworking (20-30 projects with just ARS? I look forward to a decade from now when maybe I'll have 20-30 projects under my belt total), a full time job (I assume), cave diving, boat maintenance and repair (I gather from previous threads), and educating all of us on electrical minutiae all day?? Is your day 24 hours long?You forgot his discertations on knives vs segmented vs helix vs whatever else that always end with "and that's not even the whole picture but the basic answer is 'cutterhead geometry'." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trip Posted December 1, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 You guys just want everything... OK, I' pulled my bio a couple of years ago -- so maybe I'll re-post it when I get the chance... Until then...How long? Started woodworking in my father's hobby shop (he has a great basement shop -- about 2K sq ft)... Worked at a cabinet shop during uni... After grad school, continued woodworking to off-gas my 'day job'... With the startup, worked like crazy for five years and stopped all recreational activities (except diving)... So on-and-off about twenty years.So many pieces... Ten pieces a year * twenty years = 200 pieces. Accelerated in the past several years as most of my builds are now batch (sold through a gallery). I typically build from four to eight of whatever it is... Why ARS? Most of my shop furniture, quick and dirty gifts, etc. are all ARS. It's just so easy... But I don't use it for serious furniture... Casual furniture, yea...Cave diving, boats? I’ve been fortunate enough in my career to dabble in pretty much whatever takes my fancy... Once you hit Sr Mgmt, you have as much time-off as you want, but you are never on vacation. When I’m up North, I do email till 9:00am and attend conf calls till noon, then go diving, sailing, fix boats, whatever – then eMail from 8:00pm till midnight... It requires a certain focus and intensity -- It becomes a twisted sort of lifestyle...24hr Day... Well almost... I’m one of those guys who doesn’t sleep much... Been that way since my teens... Inherited from both Grandfathers... Drives the family crazy... Always has... But you get a lot done... Board presentation due by 8:30am, but it's 10pm and you haven’t started? No problem: wake-up at 3:30am, deck done by 5:00am, in the board book by 7:00am... It becomes a lifestyle...Post a project or two? I’ve posted several – as many as a dozen. I don’t do ‘project showcase’. I participate in WTO to release stress and help folks, so I post examples to illustrate a point... I’ve got a project coming-up in Cherry and posting something on airbrushing sapwood... I just pulled the stock for that build, so something in the next few weeks...Can we get a shop tour? I don’t do photos for photos sake. I’ve posted quite a few photos form my shop over the years illustrating particular aspects that may be useful to others... I’ll shoot some when the camera’s in the shop for the sap wood thing – some electrical stuff... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 You guys just want everything... OK, I' pulled my bio a couple of years ago -- so maybe I'll re-post it when I get the chance... Until then...How long? Started woodworking in my father's hobby shop (he has a great basement shop -- about 2K sq ft)... Worked at a cabinet shop during uni... After grad school, continued woodworking to off-gas my 'day job'... With the startup, worked like crazy for five years and stopped all recreational activities (except diving)... So on-and-off about twenty years.So many pieces... Ten pieces a year * twenty years = 200 pieces. Accelerated in the past several years as most of my builds are now batch (sold through a gallery). I typically build from four to eight of whatever it is... Why ARS? Most of my shop furniture, quick and dirty gifts, etc. are all ARS. It's just so easy... But I don't use it for serious furniture... Casual furniture, yea...Cave diving, boats? I’ve been fortunate enough in my career to dabble in pretty much whatever takes my fancy... Once you hit Sr Mgmt, you have as much time-off as you want, but you are never on vacation. When I’m up North, I do email till 9:00am and attend conf calls till noon, then go diving, sailing, fix boats, whatever – then eMail from 8:00pm till midnight... It requires a certain focus and intensity -- It becomes a twisted sort of lifestyle...24hr Day... Well almost... I’m one of those guys who doesn’t sleep much... Been that way since my teens... Inherited from both Grandfathers... Drives the family crazy... Always has... But you get a lot done... Board presentation due by 8:30am, but it's 10pm and you haven’t started? No problem: wake-up at 3:30am, deck done by 5:00am, in the board book by 7:00am... It becomes a lifestyle...Post a project or two? I’ve posted several – as many as a dozen. I don’t do ‘project showcase’. I participate in WTO to release stress and help folks, so I post examples to illustrate a point... I’ve got a project coming-up in Cherry and posting something on airbrushing sapwood... I just pulled the stock for that build, so something in the next few weeks...Can we get a shop tour? I don’t do photos for photos sake. I’ve posted quite a few photos form my shop over the years illustrating particular aspects that may be useful to others... I’ll shoot some when the camera’s in the shop for the sap wood thing – some electrical stuff... Appreciate the responses and color. I look forward to the airbrushing thread - been curious about that technique since you mentioned it. I wish I could function on small amounts of sleep, but I'm luggage if I don't get my 7-8 hours. Either way keep the posts coming. I think we all appreciate the information, even if some of it doesn't apply to our mortal hobby shops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sjk Posted December 1, 2015 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I know you guys think I drink the electric kool-aid --- that’s OK with me... But there’s a lot of method behind the madness – and a lot of experience...I think I speak for many when I say people like you who offer their advice, experiences, triumphs, mistakes, and humor are what keeps me coming back to this forum. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted December 1, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 We all get a kick out of Trip's epic posts. Trip knows the only reason he takes any heat is because we're all envious of the dynasty he's built...both in tools and in knowledge. He's pulling double-duty since Don left and we're all grateful. Anyone who doesn't read every word is a waste of people meat.(We all wanna see that damn shop though, Trip. Do it.) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjk Posted December 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Anyone who doesn't read every word is a waste of people meat.Soylent Walnut is made of woodworkers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Ok fine, I'll be the one to ask. Trip, a few questions, and rest assured they all come from a place of awe and respect:1. How long have you been woodworking?2. How in god's name do you have enough time to do all this woodworking (20-30 projects with just ARS? I look forward to a decade from now when maybe I'll have 20-30 projects under my belt total), a full time job (I assume), cave diving, boat maintenance and repair (I gather from previous threads), and educating all of us on electrical minutiae all day?? Is your day 24 hours long?3. Can you post a project or two? I need to see what's coming out of this beast of a shop. Extra points for period pieces, because that's my taste and screw everyone else, especially @Eric. 4. Can we get a goddamn shop tour please???? You forgot to ask if he is really human. No human can have that much knowledge on hand. He is half man half computer. He Googles stuff right in his brain/motherboard and types via bluetooth with his eyeballs. I believe it.... Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Trip is human enough....but what little sleep he requires is taken in a Tardis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 I know you guys think I drink the electric kool-aid --- that’s OK with me... But there’s a lot of method behind the madness – and a lot of experience... My quote, and looking back it was disrespectful, and for that I apologize. No doubt you have much to share, and you always grab my attention when you speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Yeah, but you're referring to YOUR shop...Not the average shop. Big difference.If I were Trip and had trips tools, I'd run 8ga. Most of us will never see the need or get there. and If we do...we will be building from the ground up with that in mind.Exactly. Some hobbyists manage with only 110. Keep dreaming guys...I’m going to be buried with my tools... Well OK, just the hand planes... Although maybe I could be laid-out on the jointer for the wake... That’s an idea.. Great now I see members planning taking up grave robbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_ca Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Maybe I'm misunderstanding something but running 30 amp circuits to everything does not afford the protection that the machines need. If you are just running the 10 gauge wire and ramming it into the correct size breakers for each machine that's some great fore thought however, if you have only 30 amp breakers you are asking for trouble. I have seen several electrical fires due to improper over-current protection. You are allowed to up size breakers for motor loads, 150% based on a 30 minute duty cycle. So a 30 amp motor can be protected by a breaker set at 45 amps. However, that should be a dedicated branch circuit and the machine should be "hard wired" into the circuit (read no plug). Just some food for thought from an electrician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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