CNC router build

[Elroy Skimms]

7 minutes ago, difalkner said:

Wow, that's simple!  Did you add any other additive to your water and did you use distilled water?  I see a lot of systems with blue or red (pink) water...

I didn't use distilled water, but I should have. I plan on flushing the system completely and refilling it with distilled.

I'm also adding some fans and radiators to see if I can lower the temp on the water when using larger cutters. 1/4" stuff is fine, but my spoilboard surfacing bit really heats up the spindle. This is why the thermometer is handy, I will know if the fans & radiator are helping or not.

I did not use any other additives. I don't want to be the guinea pig to test if the additives are safe for the spindle or not. I know some people have used small amounts of bleach and it didn't end well for them.

-E

[difalkner]

2 hours ago, Elroy Skimms said:

I didn't use distilled water, but I should have. I plan on flushing the system completely and refilling it with distilled.

I'm also adding some fans and radiators to see if I can lower the temp on the water when using larger cutters. 1/4" stuff is fine, but my spoilboard surfacing bit really heats up the spindle. This is why the thermometer is handy, I will know if the fans & radiator are helping or not.

I did not use any other additives. I don't want to be the guinea pig to test if the additives are safe for the spindle or not. I know some people have used small amounts of bleach and it didn't end well for them.

-E

I have a radiator and one fan so that's where I'll start.  I'll assess the cooling after I've run a while to see if I need to add more fans and radiators later.  No, I wouldn't think bleach would be the way to go.  But I have read of people using regular antifreeze, RV water line antifreeze, liquid cooled PC coolant, etc.  I'm also thinking the silver doesn't have to go in a line but can just be in the reservoir and that should be just as effective.  Right now the PC coolant looks good to me because the system is very similar to the CNC use.

[socoj2]

I sent Nate an email a few weeks ago i really want a 4x8 version of the saturn table when it comes out. 

but i want to be able to slide a vacuum table in it or swap it out to a water table and run plasma or a 3kw spindle

[difalkner]

16 minutes ago, socoj2 said:

I sent Nate an email a few weeks ago i really want a 4x8 version of the saturn table when it comes out. 

but i want to be able to slide a vacuum table in it or swap it out to a water table and run plasma or a 3kw spindle

Now that would be a heavy machine!!

[Mick S]

1 hour ago, socoj2 said:

I sent Nate an email a few weeks ago i really want a 4x8 version of the saturn table when it comes out. 

but i want to be able to slide a vacuum table in it or swap it out to a water table and run plasma or a 3kw spindle

What size torch do you plan to run on the proposed machine? 

[FineLineAutomation]

3 hours ago, socoj2 said:

I sent Nate an email a few weeks ago i really want a 4x8 version of the saturn table when it comes out. 

but i want to be able to slide a vacuum table in it or swap it out to a water table and run plasma or a 3kw spindle

A 4x8 saturn series machine is planned for sometime next year. We will need to retool our material handling equipment to handle that size. It will definitely be over 1000lbs. Any of the Saturn machines should be able to take a 6" water table without modifications. That will give you 1.378" of space between the top of the water table and bottom part of the gantry.

[socoj2]

8 hours ago, FineLineAutomation said:

A 4x8 saturn series machine is planned for sometime next year. We will need to retool our material handling equipment to handle that size. It will definitely be over 1000lbs. Any of the Saturn machines should be able to take a 6" water table without modifications. That will give you 1.378" of space between the top of the water table and bottom part of the gantry.

would you guys be willing to put a package together without the frame? just gantry and X rails? I take it the electronics you have now dont have a DHTC?

[FineLineAutomation]

would you guys be willing to put a package together without the frame? just gantry and X rails? I take it the electronics you have now dont have a DHTC?

We don't offer a DHTC at the moment, though you can generally integrate the hypertherm packages pretty easier. We have had several people use them without electronics.

I'll PM you with details on the package.

Nate

Fine Line Automation

www.finelineautomation.com

[wdwerker]

DHTC ? 

[socoj2]

6 minutes ago, wdwerker said:

DHTC ? 

Its actually DTHC, some how autocorrect managed to change it up.

 

Digital Torch Heigh Control.

[difalkner]

It's time to wire the panel but I wanted to make certain there would be sufficient airflow on the stepper drivers, in particular the Z and future A (rotary axis) since they aren't right in front of the fan.  This is a simple little test but it validates what I thought it would be like so the next step is laying out the hole placement for the components and then drilling/tapping for a bunch of 6-32 screws.

 

[Tom Cancelleri]

28 minutes ago, difalkner said:

It's time to wire the panel but I wanted to make certain there would be sufficient airflow on the stepper drivers, in particular the Z and future A (rotary axis) since they aren't right in front of the fan.  This is a simple little test but it validates what I thought it would be like so the next step is laying out the hole placement for the components and then drilling/tapping for a bunch of 6-32 screws.

 

I used to build a lot of computers, and did all sorts of crazy mods for cooling, overclocking and such. Have you thought about doing a duct over the stepper drivers that funnels all the air from that fan over the stepper drivers?

[difalkner]

1 hour ago, Tom Cancelleri said:

I used to build a lot of computers, and did all sorts of crazy mods for cooling, overclocking and such. Have you thought about doing a duct over the stepper drivers that funnels all the air from that fan over the stepper drivers?

 

Hi Tom - I gave it a passing thought but honestly think this will be more than adequate given that the stepper drivers are directly in front of the fan and it will be pulling cool air from the bottom of the enclosure. 

 

[FineLineAutomation]

On August 22, 2016 at 4:29 PM, difalkner said:

 

Hi Tom - I gave it a passing thought but honestly think this will be more than adequate given that the stepper drivers are directly in front of the fan and it will be pulling cool air from the bottom of the enclosure. 

 

David,

This should be fine. There is more than enough airflow to keep the drivers within operating range.

[difalkner]

I had some meetings today so I didn't get very far on the CNC build but I did manage to print the component layout and get it taped to the back panel.  Yes, I realize this may be a bit over the top and yes I am a bit anal but this is just the way I like to do things...

With this printed and taped to the panel all I have to do now is drill where indicated, so even though it took a little time to draw this to scale and print it now my job is much easier.  Plus, this gave me the opportunity for optimum placement without interference between components.

One thing necessary was to make certain the switches didn't interfere with the PSU's or VFD since those come close to the door.  But I drew these to scale, as well, and then opened and closed the door to verify nothing would hit on the inside.

Looking down from the top of the electrical enclosure with the door closed (PSU's and VFD are the dashed lines) -

And with the door open -

Thanks for reading and following - more later!
David

[drzaius]

That's beautiful man. In my day job as an electrician, I've built a number of control assemblies & just love doing that kind of work. Definitely some great craftsmanship there.

[difalkner]

18 minutes ago, drzaius said:

That's beautiful man. In my day job as an electrician, I've built a number of control assemblies & just love doing that kind of work. Definitely some great craftsmanship there.

Thanks!  I find this very enjoyable, as well.  It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to build an enclosure and controls.  It was fun designing the circuitry for the relays and related components and coming up with my own latching circuit and all that stuff.

[drzaius]

1 hour ago, difalkner said:

Thanks!  I find this very enjoyable, as well.  It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to build an enclosure and controls.  It was fun designing the circuitry for the relays and related components and coming up with my own latching circuit and all that stuff.

Now you're just talking dirty to me.

[FineLineAutomation]

23 hours ago, difalkner said:

I had some meetings today so I didn't get very far on the CNC build but I did manage to print the component layout and get it taped to the back panel.  Yes, I realize this may be a bit over the top and yes I am a bit anal but this is just the way I like to do things...

With this printed and taped to the panel all I have to do now is drill where indicated, so even though it took a little time to draw this to scale and print it now my job is much easier.  Plus, this gave me the opportunity for optimum placement without interference between components.

One thing necessary was to make certain the switches didn't interfere with the PSU's or VFD since those come close to the door.  But I drew these to scale, as well, and then opened and closed the door to verify nothing would hit on the inside.

Looking down from the top of the electrical enclosure with the door closed (PSU's and VFD are the dashed lines) -

And with the door open -

Thanks for reading and following - more later!
David

Awesome job. I don't see people layout the job to the extent you have. Looks great! 

[difalkner]

32 minutes ago, FineLineAutomation said:

Awesome job. I don't see people layout the job to the extent you have. Looks great! 

Thanks, Nate!  But most everyone else would be cutting wood by now and not still designing and building things... ugh!  LOL!

[difalkner]

In preparation for drilling and tapping all the holes in the back panel I realized I had yet to drill the holes in the brackets for the 5V power supply.  Simple task, right?  Just stick it in the vise and drill 5/32" holes in the aluminum - a veritable walk in the park.  Unless you don't clamp the vise very tight...

Oops!  Drill bit grabbed and slung this across the room -

But I straightened it out, polished the new character marks out, and shot some lacquer on both pieces -

Lots of holes drilled and tapped, ready for components -

Components mounted -

More to come!
Thanks for following,
David

[difalkner]

Here's a topic that is likely easy to answer but I suspect there are folks on both sides of this fence: I have two 48V power supplies, 10.4 amp, and we are using four 5.5 amp NEMA 34 stepper motors. I thought it would be a good idea for load balancing to put Z and one Y on one power supply and X and the other Y on the other power supply. My thinking is that if movement is only in the Y direction then the load will be split between the two power supplies rather than all coming from one. Obviously if movement is circular or off the straight line Y axis then at least 3 motors will be engaged at the same time, sometimes all four.

 So is that a regular, accepted thing or should both Y steppers be powered by the same PSU?

 Thanks in advance!
 David

[Tom Cancelleri]

Here's a topic that is likely easy to answer but I suspect there are folks on both sides of this fence: I have two 48V power supplies, 10.4 amp, and we are using four 5.5 amp NEMA 34 stepper motors. I thought it would be a good idea for load balancing to put Z and one Y on one power supply and X and the other Y on the other power supply. My thinking is that if movement is only in the Y direction then the load will be split between the two power supplies rather than all coming from one. Obviously if movement is circular or off the straight line Y axis then at least 3 motors will be engaged at the same time, sometimes all four.

 So is that a regular, accepted thing or should both Y steppers be powered by the same PSU?

 Thanks in advance!

 David

David, not sure what protection is in place in case of any failure, but being someone that has dealt with electronic components for a long time I'd be concerned about a PSU failure and one Y stepper motor moving and the other not causing the gantry to misalign/twist, or some other damage.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[FineLineAutomation]

Here's a topic that is likely easy to answer but I suspect there are folks on both sides of this fence: I have two 48V power supplies, 10.4 amp, and we are using four 5.5 amp NEMA 34 stepper motors. I thought it would be a good idea for load balancing to put Z and one Y on one power supply and X and the other Y on the other power supply. My thinking is that if movement is only in the Y direction then the load will be split between the two power supplies rather than all coming from one. Obviously if movement is circular or off the straight line Y axis then at least 3 motors will be engaged at the same time, sometimes all four.

 So is that a regular, accepted thing or should both Y steppers be powered by the same PSU?

 Thanks in advance!

 David

I don't think it will matter hooking it up one way or the other. Some will say you risk racking the gantry if one supply goes out but in reality the chances of that are rare and on this machine it shouldn't hurt anything. Just make sure you adjust the supplies using the trim pots so that the voltages are the same.

Nate

Fine Line Automation

www.finelineautomation.com

[difalkner]

2 hours ago, FineLineAutomation said:

I don't think it will matter hooking it up one way or the other. Some will say you risk racking the gantry if one supply goes out but in reality the chances of that are rare and on this machine it shouldn't hurt anything. Just make sure you adjust the supplies using the trim pots so that the voltages are the same.

Nate

Fine Line Automation

www.finelineautomation.com

That's kind of what I was thinking, Nate.  Btw, I have already adjusted the output to exactly 48 volts on both (new digital multimeter just begging to be used).

Here's my thought process (scary, I realize...) - My initial design has the A axis primarily on the front of the machine parallel to the X axis for short stock, say 15"-18", but what I've designed will also mount 90° from that and be parallel to the Y axis for longer stock to take advantage of the 4' length of the machine frame. 

However, most of the A axis motion will be in small increments or indexing as the X or Y moves along the length of the stock.  While it may be necessary on occasion to turn the A axis in continuous motion, like a lathe, I just don't see that being the norm.  And if that becomes necessary I would think it to be low speed and low load so it shouldn't even be pulling the full current draw for the A axis stepper motor.  For that reason I thought splitting the load for the Y steppers would be good. 

I could simplify all this by just placing A along the Y axis for the maximum length stock and just forget about having two configurations for A...

Another thought is I can simply move the two terminals for powering the A stepper driver, as needed, from one power supply to the next in about two minutes.  At this time I don't know how often I'll use the A axis so it isn't yet an issue but I have one soon to be frequent customer asking if I'll be able to do any routing on curved or round stock and if I'm able to do that then he's going to want 12-15 items in Walnut every month.  If what he wants is short enough to use the A configuration along the X axis then he's going to keep me busy enough to just leave it there and manage the power supplies as needed.  Decisions, decisions...