so many choices, as a beginner what to buy so you don't waste money

[TheOnlyDave]

20 hours ago, minorhero said:

You mentioned at the start that your house is almost complete, so if the basement is still rough there may be time to take measures. The best way to deal with most of these things is to literally build a room inside of your basement (walls, cielings, the whole 9 yards) and enclose your shop in this room inside a room.

Yeah, I went a little overboard on that.  I built a 3D model in Sketchup of the basement. 

[Eric.]

SawStop is a great saw.  You just have to realize that you're blowing a huge chunk of your "budget" on one tool, which means you're not really ON a budget.  You're just buying the tools you want until you run out of money.  Nothing wrong with that, just don't expect to have a fully functional shop for quite a bit longer than if you would fill it with more moderately priced tools.  I'd rather have three big Grizzly tools to start with than one really nice table saw, then upgrade everything down the road.  That's how I started and while I did have some issues with those Grizzly's after years of use...I did get years of use out of them and pumped out a bunch of work.  You can do a lot of projects with that table saw, but not nearly as many as if you had a truly equipped shop.  But it's your hobby, do it your way.

[TheOnlyDave]

5 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

Not sure what you are thinking of for dust collection but 1000$ wont get you very far. I guess you are thinking of a bag style filter and connecting to one machine at a time?

What noise are you concerned with about venting outside? Indoor noise or outdoor? I have mine vented outside and inside the shop is much quieter. Outside isnt that loud. I could check with a decibel meter for you if you need. Are your neighbours really close? 

I don't have my list with me but it was a Jet model with the Vortex cone and a Filter not a bag.  Not super but seemed like it would be adequate for me based on reviews.  I had considered a modded Harbor Freight one also, not sure I want to go that direction, once you build the baffle or add a Super Dust Deputy and add the filter kit you are getting close to the cost of an expensive one. 

Neighbors are not super close but I don't want to be someone that moves in and starts making all sorts of noise. 

For my hand held and miter saw I currently use a Rigid shop vac with the HEPA filter and a Dest Deputy cyclone.

I'm a amateur, not a newbie, I've been woodworking for some time, just finally now get to build a real shop.  

[Eric.]

If you're in a basement I'd be looking at 5HP units and nothing less.  In a garage, different story.

[shaneymack]

6 minutes ago, Eric. said:

If you're in a basement I'd be looking at 5HP units and nothing less.  In a garage, different story.

^^^^ Wise words 

[minorhero]

I don't own this machine but I was thinking of it for my own shop:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/3-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/G0441

No idea about advantages of 5hp dust collectors over this etc. But it will certainly be better then the Jet vortex you are looking at. Irregardless you will also need an air cleaner. You mentioned a 3d model of the basement and that is definitely a good start. What features are you putting in to combat dust? Seriously this is a huge thing and will likely determine how much you get to use this giant shop. If the Wife decides that every time you use the shop the house is filled with fine and frankly deadly small particles of wood dust, your shop may turn into storage and a man cave rather then the woodshop of dreams. 

On sawstop, I own the 3hp professional model with the upgraded fence. Do not get the crappier aluminum fence, it is really crappy, go with the upgraded fence. It will cost you 100$ more and its worth every penny. I am quite pleased with my sawstop and see no reason why you shouldn't spring for it. Of all the tools you will buy this is by far the most essential.

I don't see any reason you can't hold off on a bandsaw till you have a project that will require cutting a lot of curves. Frankly if you use pre-finished wood and plywood you will likely only need the tablesaw for this whole first project. 

 

 

[TheOnlyDave]

Here is what I'm leaning towards:

Sawstop PCS 3hp	$  3,397.00
Rigid Jointer	have
Dewalt 735 Planer	$      649.00
Grizzly G0513ANV 2 HP Bandsaw	$      895.00
JET JDP-17MF 3/4 HP Drill Press	$      649.00
JESSEM Rout-R-Lift II Included Router Table System With Phenolic Top	$      759.00

Does this look like I'm making any huge mistakes?  

Obviously I am over my budget but I can live with it.  

Dust collection to be determined. I need to research the 5hp models.  That's a class I've not looked at before. 

[Eric.]

2 minutes ago, TheOnlyDave said:

Here is what I'm leaning towards:

Sawstop PCS 3hp	$  3,397.00
Rigid Jointer	have
Dewalt 735 Planer	$      649.00
Grizzly G0513ANV 2 HP Bandsaw	$      895.00
JET JDP-17MF 3/4 HP Drill Press	$      649.00
JESSEM Rout-R-Lift II Included Router Table System With Phenolic Top	$      759.00

Does this look like I'm making any huge mistakes? 

I'd spend a few hundred more and buy the Laguna 1412 instead of the Grizzly.  Otherwise, looks like solid choices.

[BonPacific]

Do you have sales tax in your state? Could kick that list up to 7k, and then Shipping isn't going to be cheap.

I'm just jealous  looks like a ton of fun!

[TheOnlyDave]

2 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I'd spend a few hundred more and buy the Laguna 1412 instead of the Grizzly.  Otherwise, looks like solid choices.

If I was buying today only $92.  This one correct?

http://www.rockler.com/laguna-1412-14-bandsaw?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=Cj0KEQjw6uO-BRDbzujwtuzAzfkBEiQAAnhJ0I1kcJ4jrm-Xm_aGHEyBohMz_KfXBKIi0SBoa6m1T5kaAlYx8P8HAQ

[..Kev]

3 minutes ago, TheOnlyDave said:

Here is what I'm leaning towards:

Sawstop PCS 3hp	$  3,397.00
Rigid Jointer	have
Dewalt 735 Planer	$      649.00
Grizzly G0513ANV 2 HP Bandsaw	$      895.00
JET JDP-17MF 3/4 HP Drill Press	$      649.00
JESSEM Rout-R-Lift II Included Router Table System With Phenolic Top	$      759.00

Does this look like I'm making any huge mistakes?  

Obviously I am over my budget but I can live with it.  

Dust collection to be determined. I need to research the 5hp models.  That's a class I've not looked at before. 

Just some thoughts to remember..  This is a very nice list but, do you have cordless drills, sanders/paper, drill bits, clamps, glue, lumber, etc..  Not trying to be a downer, just tossing out all that hidden stuff that people forget. 

[Beechwood Chip]

When I've gotten lots of tools at the same time, the time it took to set up and calibrate all the tools was a motivation killer, especially if I didn't have an immediate use for the tool.  I prefer to get one tool at a time as I need them, so I can immediately spend some "quality time" with the tool.

You can do a lot with a router, a circular saw, a drill, a workbench and a bunch of clamps.  All of which you'll need regardless of what tools you'll get later.  

On the other hand, if you first project is a complete kitchen cabinet build, then you might as well start with the table saw and everything else you need to do the cabinets.

[TheOnlyDave]

4 hours ago, TIODS said:

Just some thoughts to remember..  This is a very nice list but, do you have cordless drills, sanders/paper, drill bits, clamps, glue, lumber, etc..  Not trying to be a downer, just tossing out all that hidden stuff that people forget. 

I do have drills, impact drivers, saws,  Marples, nice collection of old Stanley planes, clamps.  In hindsight I shouldn't of called myself a beginer.  I've been doing basic woodworking for years, heck since I was a kid.  It's just the last 15 years I've lived in a house with no basement, and you can't park on the street, so I was a garage warrior but I still needed to fit cars in my garage every night.   Now I get to build myself a real shop and start to step up my game.  

[wtnhighlander]

Although the Sawstop is an excellent machine, bear in mind that it has a pretty high entry cost, AND a higher maintenance cost when you inevitably trigger the brake with a piece of metal or a wet board. The safety feature ONLY provides protection against flesh contacting the blade. Anecdotally speaking, kick-back is far more likely to cause you harm, and in that regard, Sawstop offers nothing above any other quality saw. Personally, I would rather buy an equally good saw for less money, and use the savings elsewhere. Its easy to keep your bodyparts away from the blade, but much less easy to avoid a flying chunk of wood thrown at you by the blade.

But as Eric said, your hobby, do it your way. And enjoy it!

[JosephThomas]

I like the list...I personally wouldn't have a drill press on the list of immediate needs though. Depends on how you plan to use it I guess, like anything else. Good luck!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[galturner]

I don't see a workbench on your must have list.  Will you make one?  I'd sure budget in a great quality vise and cabinets under to get weight.  If you buy one, that's 2-3 grand. The workbench is often overlooked, but holding work is always a struggle, and a great bench(and accessories) makes life&work MUCH easier.

[minorhero]

I would echo the Laguna 1412 bandsaw. I would also echo not buying all of this at once unless there is some overriding factor at play such as a way you found to get this covered as a tax write-off or some such. Your first projects for instance wont use a bandsaw. And depending on lumber options wont use a planer either. You might not even need a drill press given that you already have cordless drills etc. 

Calibration is a no joke activity that takes hours of course. But the real reason to hold off is that new stuff is coming out all the time and sales happen a few times a year. Today you may want that model of drill press, but what happens after you see Nova's New Programmable Drill Press  you may change your mind and decide to save up etc.

Bottom line is don't buy more then you need, start a new bank account and stick the money you were going to spend in there so its earmarked for shop purchases and you can work as if its already spent, but hold out till you need a tool for a project and go from there.

[gee-dub]

These are great conversations since you get to pick everyone's favorites and sort them out as they apply to your situation.  I'm glad to see so much push on dust collection.  I don't talk about it much but I get to take medication twice a day due to not dealing with proper dust collection right off the bat.  While some people go their whole life with just a bagger and leaving the garage door open, some people smoke their whole life too; most don't.

Venting outside would be the ultimate luxury and money saver; if you don't have to filter the air your efficiency goes way up.  It is venting the collected air full of spoil back into your breathing space that requires the fine filtering and all the technology that goes behind it. That being said, most of us in a suburban location can't get away with dumping fines in our neighbors koi ponds or whatever. ;-)  Given the size of your shop you are still probably looking at a 5HP for the long runs.

I have the 3HP PCS with 52" rails and have been extremely happy with it.  So, now that we know you will have a tablesaw-centric shop we can move along.  I can rattle off what I have morphed to for primary machines over the years and that may help.

3HP Saw Stop

G0490X jointer

G0453Z planer

G0513X bandsaw

Jet oscillating edge sander

Supermax drum sander

Spindle / 12" disc sander

17" drill press

Router table with a Milwaukee 5625 and a Woodpecker PRL-v1

Of course their are supplies for each of these; blades, abrasives, other hand tools powered and not and all that.  These things will come or you may already have the ones you want.  Your tablesaw is your anchor tool in your case.  Obviously it is dangerous to saw un-milled lumber so the jointer and planer team are essential in a tablesaw-centric shop.  The bandsaw is great for sawing un-milled lumber (and a hundred other tasks) . . . see, I told you these discussions were great ;-)

[Pwk5017]

I went twoish years without a bandsaw and never missed it. You dont need a bandsaw for cabinet projects. Personally, i would hold off on the bandsaw until you can get a proper one in the 3hp, 12" resaw, 16"+ throat range. I know, people have 14"ers and use them all the time and build better than me, but I vote on waiting. 

 

Im in a basement shop. I started woodworking with a dewalt chop saw. After 2-3 weeks i figured i should collect the dust cause it was making a mess. I attached a shop vac to it. A month later I purchased a 735 and decided to buy a craigslist special in the form of a 1.5hp shopfox collector. Upgraded to a wynn filter. Built a thien baffle. Thought an ambient air cleaner would help, so purchased a JDS airtech HP. Discovered Bill Pentz and sold the modded 1.5hp collector within a month for a craigslist 3hp grizzly cyclone. So I went from nothing to cyclone and ambient air cleaner in 7 months. BP will scare any normal basement woodworker half to death. The point of rambling off my progression is to give you a crystal ball into your near future. Within the building envelope of your home with your soon-to-be wife, you really need to approach air quality with a certain level of severity. You dont need to go off the deep end like Bill, but you do owe it to yourself and your future family to do it properly. On top of air quality, the single stage collectors blow at their job. You quickly load the filter, which causes your already inflated factory CFM number to plummet. Secondly, you cant properly duct your shop with those collectors, and moving it around is a pain. Third, they dont collect all the dust/chips, so your shop quickly becomes a mess of debris. I hate to be mr. doom and gloom safety police, but dust collection is the one item you really want to get right on the first go. Upgrading your ridgid jointer is easy peasy. Buy the new one and roll out the old one. With upgrading a dust collector in a ducted shop, you might choose the pistol as an easier way out. My advice, do it right and do without a bandsaw for a year. Also, I guarantee you can get a delta or PM drill press in your area for half the price of that jet. Like the bandsaw, I did without a drill press for 2 years. 

[BonPacific]

52 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

...

Also, I guarantee you can get a delta or PM drill press in your area for half the price of that jet. Like the bandsaw, I did without a drill press for 2 years. 

There are a few tools where the difference in performance between cheap and pricy is fairly narrow. The Drill Press is a fine example of that. Unless you're doing metal work, or hogging out 3"+ holes, or want digital micrometer precision, a basic benchtop drill press should serve you fine for years (if not forever), and a half-decent brand won't really "wear out" unless it's coming from a production shop. Drill Presses are perfect candidates for buying used.

Edit: @Pwk5017, I'd like to see the CL listings in your area if you can find a used PM drill press for under $325. Old Delta's sure, but the only PM DP I've seen in that range was in pieces.

[Immortan D]

Just don't make the mistake of buying a drill press with plastic pulleys as I did.

[Pwk5017]

2 hours ago, BonPacific said:

There are a few tools where the difference in performance between cheap and pricy is fairly narrow. The Drill Press is a fine example of that. Unless you're doing metal work, or hogging out 3"+ holes, or want digital micrometer precision, a basic benchtop drill press should serve you fine for years (if not forever), and a half-decent brand won't really "wear out" unless it's coming from a production shop. Drill Presses are perfect candidates for buying used.

Edit: @Pwk5017, I'd like to see the CL listings in your area if you can find a used PM drill press for under $325. Old Delta's sure, but the only PM DP I've seen in that range was in pieces.

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5674605069.html

Shall I take the thumbscrews to him and get the PM for $175?

 

This is a decent choice. Too rich for my blood, but better than the money spent on the alienhead jet

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5738265160.html

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5732326616.html

 

I would keep going, but those are enough to make my point. Ive never used a benchtop drill press, but I almost have to wonder if a $50 one off craigslist wouldnt "get the job done" for the meantime. I spent $100 on my 1960s floor model delta. I would spend $700 on a chisel set before I spent $700 on a DP. 

[BonPacific]

16 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5674605069.html

Shall I take the thumbscrews to him and get the PM for $175?

Wow, nice options in your area. Out here on the west coast they must not have been popular enough to build up a used supply. Lots of bigger PM stuff (tablesaw, jointer, planer) but very few drill presses.

 

17 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

I would keep going, but those are enough to make my point. Ive never used a benchtop drill press, but I almost have to wonder if a $50 one off craigslist wouldnt "get the job done" for the meantime. I spent $100 on my 1960s floor model delta. I would spend $700 on a chisel set before I spent $700 on a DP. 

I love old delta's, especially since everyone in the world copied them so you'll never have to worry about parts. I've got an old Delta bench-top Drill Press that I absolutely love.

[Pwk5017]

1 minute ago, BonPacific said:

Wow, nice options in your area. Out here on the west coast they must not have been popular enough to build up a used supply. Lots of bigger PM stuff (tablesaw, jointer, planer) but very few drill presses.

 

I love old delta's, especially since everyone in the world copied them so you'll never have to worry about parts. I've got an old Delta bench-top Drill Press that I absolutely love.

Rust belt, man. Never a lack of artifacts from the glorious days of old. Just wait till Tom sees this challenge and posts a ridiculous find. He will link to a Curb Alert PM 1200. 

[TheOnlyDave]

Drill press was one of things I would consider putting off.  I have drills.  I have a cheap bench top drill press.