Seth Clayton Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 Are the Shop Vacs that you can buy at the big box stores powerful enough to run a permanent (not portable) dust collection setup? I have the Oneida Cyclone attached to a shop vac now, and it really works quite well. It is a pain to roll it around the shop with me though. If I run 2" pipe around the shop with blast gates and a hose for each tool, am I going to be disappointed with the suction that the Shop Vac can produce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 I think you need to use 1 1/2" pipe, I believe Rockler and Lee Valley have setups you can buy or at least get ideas. I think you may be disappointed if you are trying to use a jointer or planer with such a system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 The longer the pipe, the greater the static pressure load due to friction reducing the flow rate. Even with tasks vacuum perform well, the return on investment is degraded by long pipe and hose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 I use a ducted, central vacuum/dust deputy system to handle my miter saw, router table, drum sander, oscillating sander and all of my festools (not sure if that's a word). Then it handles the general vacuum duties and there is a run to the garage area for the cars. Total length of the duct is probably pushing 100'. A central vac is just a shop vac without wheels. The one I have has the same specs as a Festool and was a couple of bucs cheaper. This won't work for larger tools, table saw etc but for everything else it works like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Clayton Posted January 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Woodenskye said: I think you need to use 1 1/2" pipe, I believe Rockler and Lee Valley have setups you can buy or at least get ideas. I think you may be disappointed if you are trying to use a jointer or planer with such a system. Is this because those machines create much bigger chips that are harder to move? I wouldn't mind moving the shop vac just for the planer (no jointer yet...) 1 minute ago, Just Bob said: I use a ducted, central vacuum/dust deputy system to handle my miter saw, router table, drum sander, oscillating sander and all of my festools (not sure if that's a word). Then it handles the general vacuum duties and there is a run to the garage area for the cars. Total length of the duct is probably pushing 100'. A central vac is just a shop vac without wheels. The one I have has the same specs as a Festool and was a couple of bucs cheaper. This won't work for larger tools, table saw etc but for everything else it works like a charm. What HP is your vac? Is that the key spec to look at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, Seth Clayton said: Is this because those machines create much bigger chips that are harder to move? I wouldn't mind moving the shop vac just for the planer (no jointer yet...) What HP is your vac? Is that the key spec to look at? Yes those machines create larger chips. Using a shop vac with a planer will prove to be futile. I use my planer outside and let nature and a leaf blower take care of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted January 2, 2017 Report Share Posted January 2, 2017 34 minutes ago, Seth Clayton said: What HP is your vac? Is that the key spec to look at? I am not an expert at this stuff, but in my opinion HP ratings for small tools are garbage. And as far as I can tell there is no standard rating in the HVAC industry either. At the time that I was comparing, Festool and the company that made my central vac happened to be using similar nomenclature to get people to buy their stuff, so I was able to compare the two. But I made my choice based on experience. About 25yrs ago, I installed a central vac system in our house. That system always amazed me at its ability to suck up socks, underwear, and parts of small children, so I went with a central vac. But again I would not use this for my stationary tools, they have different requirements for dust collection. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldvogel Review Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 Ill let you know. im piping my system this next weekend. Ill be using 2" schedule 40 PVC with flex hose and hose clamps that will go over the top of the 2". I have tested the fit and it looks great. Alot of people hate on the shop vac systems, but they do work well for small garage shops. I just cant decide if i want to isolate my shop vac to the attic area above the garage to reduce noise without restricting air flow or not. I have gone more than a year without a need to change my bag even once. The Dust Deputy truly works fantastic. Even when i suck up metal nuts and a couple screws I have had no problem using a 4" to 2.5" converter with my 14 gallon Rigid shop vac. Im using 45 and long sweep 90's in the system im setting up right now. The suction with about 40 ft of flex hose has always been fine with my portercable lunchbox planer (2 HSS blades) . I use a bag and hepa filter in my vac to keep the vac completely clean. I use a Eagle blue plastic container with a small dust deputy to seperate it all out. My Dewalt 7480 has a great shroud that gets almost all the dust from the bottom. The top spray is what i miss, but will need to make myself a solution for that later. Router table chips are always find, though i just purchase a Y to hook it to the cabinet section and not just the fence area. Anybody else have success with their shop vac piped garage? I would say use a bigger shop vac with a 2.5 inch inlet. Thats my preference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 My experience did not mirror JustBob's. Longer runs of 2-1/2" pipe dropped the suction too much for my use. I did have sections of regular old cheap Shop Vac hose at each end of the pipe so, maybe the ridges combined with the length did me in(?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandorLush Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 What would be the reason for using 2" pipe over 2.5" pipe? Asking because I am looking to set up a "small tool" DC system to work alongside my 2hp harbor freight DC for my bigger tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Clayton Posted January 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, CandorLush said: What would be the reason for using 2" pipe over 2.5" pipe? Asking because I am looking to set up a "small tool" DC system to work alongside my 2hp harbor freight DC for my bigger tools. Smaller pipe will keep your suction up. Think about using a thin straw vs a fat one. Much less effort to pull liquid through one of those coffee stirrers than a garden hose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandorLush Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, Seth Clayton said: Smaller pipe will keep your suction up. Think about using a thin straw vs a fat one. Much less effort to pull liquid through one of those coffee stirrers than a garden hose. Gotcha, I guess I am so used to thinking along the lines of the larger DC and how negative the effect of piping down can be but I suppose that going from 2.5" to 2" is WAY less restrictive than going from 4" to 2.5" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldvogel Review Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, CandorLush said: What would be the reason for using 2" pipe over 2.5" pipe? Asking because I am looking to set up a "small tool" DC system to work alongside my 2hp harbor freight DC for my bigger tools. The reason I used 2" over 2.5" was simply because my local home depot and Lowes only carry 2.5" in the electricians PVC, and sold no fittings for it other than soft 90's. Also PVC wall thickness is not consistent with my shop vac connectors. I found that flexible fittings with hose clamps that i have fit great around 2" PVC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 I think that you will find that the distance you can go without losing too much suction is rather limited with a shop vac. Shop vacs are high velocity, low volume systems (high suction in small hoses), while dust collectors are low velocity, high volume (lower suction in larger ducts) They behave differently. I am sure you could go several feet with a shop vac system if you closed the blast gates to all but the one tool you are using at the time. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how far you can go. I never tested it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldvogel Review Posted January 3, 2017 Report Share Posted January 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ronn W said: I think that you will find that the distance you can go without losing too much suction is rather limited with a shop vac. Shop vacs are high velocity, low volume systems (high suction in small hoses), while dust collectors are low velocity, high volume (lower suction in larger ducts) They behave differently. I am sure you could go several feet with a shop vac system if you closed the blast gates to all but the one tool you are using at the time. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how far you can go. I never tested it. I would agree there. That is part of the reason i think i might put the vac in my attic to reduce 1 6-8 ft vertical run and 1 or 2 extra angled pieces. I do not believe that i could use a shop vac that not 2.5". Anything smaller I would just assume go buy a HF dust collector a make a 2 stage system for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandorLush Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 23 hours ago, Waldvogel Review said: The reason I used 2" over 2.5" was simply because my local home depot and Lowes only carry 2.5" in the electricians PVC, and sold no fittings for it other than soft 90's. Also PVC wall thickness is not consistent with my shop vac connectors. I found that flexible fittings with hose clamps that i have fit great around 2" PVC. Sure enough, only 2" at my HD. That's what I get for thinking. Here goes nothing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 On 03/01/2017 at 0:57 PM, Seth Clayton said: Smaller pipe will keep your suction up. Think about using a thin straw vs a fat one. Much less effort to pull liquid through one of those coffee stirrers than a garden hose. You've actually got that almost backwards. Smaller pipe will give higher air velocity through the pipe, but with much higher static pressure losses. The ideal situation is where you have the velocity just high enough to keep the chips & dust from settling out in the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldvogel Review Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 28 minutes ago, CandorLush said: Sure enough, only 2" at my HD. That's what I get for thinking. Here goes nothing.... I cannot wait to hear back how it goes for you. I was curious about those ball valves as blast gates. Let me know. Maybe ill try those instead of DIY blast gates. My worry is that on my larger chips that the ball joint hold would be smaller than 2" and be the point of clogging. BUT that doesnt mean they wont work. I was just reluctant without talking to someone who has used them for this. you should suck up some planer or jointer chips and let me know how it goes LOL ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandorLush Posted January 4, 2017 Report Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Waldvogel Review said: I cannot wait to hear back how it goes for you. I was curious about those ball valves as blast gates. Let me know. Maybe ill try those instead of DIY blast gates. My worry is that on my larger chips that the ball joint hold would be smaller than 2" and be the point of clogging. BUT that doesnt mean they wont work. I was just reluctant without talking to someone who has used them for this. you should suck up some planer or jointer chips and let me know how it goes LOL ! Lol, I only went with them because I saw an instructable with them. Initial thought is they are very tight and will require sturdy hanging if you ever want to do them one handed. The inner hole is the same size as the rest of the pipe but I noticed one that was openinging 1/16th short of flush. I didn't have time to see if I could force it to open the rest of the way. I tried spraying them with dry lube with no effect other than the carrier fused the PVC so I had to whack it with my dead blow to get the valve loose again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldvogel Review Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 16 hours ago, CandorLush said: Lol, I only went with them because I saw an instructable with them. Initial thought is they are very tight and will require sturdy hanging if you ever want to do them one handed. The inner hole is the same size as the rest of the pipe but I noticed one that was openinging 1/16th short of flush. I didn't have time to see if I could force it to open the rest of the way. I tried spraying them with dry lube with no effect other than the carrier fused the PVC so I had to whack it with my dead blow to get the valve loose again Maybe ill go buy some ! Thanks for the reply. Worst case scenario I can start off with a couple and see how they work for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Clayton Posted January 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Here's a very useful piece of info: http://www.woodmagazine.com/tool-reviews/dust-collection/dust-collection-that-evolves-with-your-shop Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Has anyone mentioned static electricity? Does the PVC route require a grounded wire routed through the conduit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandorLush Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Static is a concern and is something I will be looking out for but that is super easy to mitigate so it is not something that is going to stop me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Static discharge from PVC pipe is at worst, an annoyance. There is no danger there. But if the humidity is very low, you can get a pretty good zap off a vacuum hose. Been there. Certainly not dangerous though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 as someone that has to work out of a 1 car garage, i can tell you space is an issue, when we start talking about a DC system. (can't find enough room to put one in) i can say right now, that "depending" on a shop vac to do your DC collection is "false economy". it can't be done. i use that for my situation, and it still spreads fine dust all over the place. i use a fan behind me, (not a small one - a big black banshee that screams on high) another at the garage door, and a ceiling fan, and i still blow wood snot, and have fine dust all over the place. just "saying" the fine's are what will make your life miserable in the future. not the the "chips" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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