Southwood Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 Looking good dub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 gdub - Question: Assuming you drawbore your breadboards, do you have some system for setting up your router to plunge out those elongated holes in the tenons to make sure the placement is dead nuts? Just eyeball it? Or do you have some trick up your sleeve for that, too? In my experiences with drawboring I've found that it's critical to get that offset absolutely perfect or things just go...not well. Not enough offset and the whole process becomes meaningless...too much offset and it gets real dicey driving the pins through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 56 minutes ago, Eric. said: gdub - Question: Assuming you drawbore your breadboards, do you have some system for setting up your router to plunge out those elongated holes in the tenons to make sure the placement is dead nuts? Just eyeball it? Or do you have some trick up your sleeve for that, too? In my experiences with drawboring I've found that it's critical to get that offset absolutely perfect or things just go...not well. Not enough offset and the whole process becomes meaningless...too much offset and it gets real dicey driving the pins through. So true. I know I've blown it if I am whacking the peg and it is giving me bounce-back instead of driving in like a nail . These are not drawbore but, I do have a trick. For drawbore tenons I clamp the parts in place, put a stop collar on the drill bit I use for the entrance hole so that the center tip of the brad point bit will just poke the tenon. I disassemble things and use this mark to set my router's edge guide. I then nudge things about 1/32" tighter (depending on stock thickness and material type) to the tenon's shoulder before I route the through-hole or through-slot in the tenon. If I am also putting the peg all the way through the parts, I use the entrance hole as a guide for the exit hole wile things are disassembled. End result is an offset of 1/32". I chamfer the over-long dowel and drive it well through. I then cut off the chamfer and flush cut (or leave proud and round over) the dowel. Like most things there is more than one way to skin that cat but, this is what I have settled on. I picked out my material for the drawer fronts. It helps me choose parts by highlighting the figure I am after with some chalk. Every time I don't take 30 seconds to hook the vac to the jigsaw (my cutoff saw) I find myself sweeping up and wondering "why?". I was moving along nicely but, Sonny Landreth's 'Congo Square' came on the music system so, I had to turn off the DC to listen for a bit , , , , OK, back at it; I rip the blanks out at the bandsaw to rough size. And these will become my drawer fronts. During the music break I happened to notice the time. I have to get cleaned up for dinner guests so I'll try to get in some more time tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 1 hour ago, gee-dub said: put a stop collar on the drill bit I use for the entrance hole so that the center tip of the brad point bit will just poke the tenon. I disassemble things and use this mark to set my router's edge guide. I then nudge things about 1/32" tighter to the tenon's shoulder So essentially you are just eyeballing this. I thought you might have some clever jig solution that eliminates the potential for error. I've considered using the router trick to elongate the holes in the past (I thought I was the only one who's come up with that idea ...should've known better)...but the offset aspect made me nervous so I've always just done it with a rat tail rasp. The downside to that, of course, is if you're not extremely careful you can expand the hole in the WRONG direction and create too much slop. I haven't had any real disasters but I figured there was a more precise way. Think I'll try it next time...thanks for the tips. 1 hour ago, gee-dub said: Every time I don't take 30 seconds to hook the vac to the jigsaw I find myself sweeping up and wondering "why?". Every time I DO take the 30 seconds to hook the vac to the jigsaw I find myself sweeping up and wondering "why?" My Trion is crap for dust collection...the worst Festool I own in that regard. Just one more reason I should have saved the coin and bought the damn Bosch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 6, 2017 Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 Now that I think a little more about it, I wonder if this is the ticket... Create the holes in the breadboard with your 1/4" brad point drill bit (or whatever diameter you choose). Then assemble the breadboard onto the panel, clamp the joint tight, mark the location on the tenon through the breadboard hole with the same brad point bit, take the breadboard off, decide where your offset will be and drill that hole with the same brad point bit. You now have an accurate offset. Now use that hole in the tenon to set up your router fence by plunging the router bit (of the same diameter as the drill bit, obviously) into the hole and locking the fence in place. Yeah? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 24 minutes ago, Eric. said: Now that I think a little more about it, I wonder if this is the ticket... Create the holes in the breadboard with your 1/4" brad point drill bit (or whatever diameter you choose). Then assemble the breadboard onto the panel, clamp the joint tight, mark the location on the tenon through the breadboard hole with the same brad point bit, take the breadboard off, decide where your offset will be and drill that hole with the same brad point bit. You now have an accurate offset. Now use that hole in the tenon to set up your router fence by plunging the router bit (of the same diameter as the drill bit, obviously) into the hole and locking the fence in place. Yeah? Si, muy bien! With the bit in the hole, you can't miss on the setup. This place is like a think-tank of woodworking ideas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 There goes Eric costing me more money. Now I need to go buy a 3/8 router bit for a top I'm making for a nieghbor. GD...you are Mr Gadget and your jigs and tricks are super impressive as is your work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Janello said: There goes Eric costing me more money. Now I need to go buy a 3/8 router bit for a top I'm making for a nieghbor. I'll add one more wrinkle before you go buy that straight bit... You might have to create your own dowels to use this technique we just improvised. Because...I'm not sure I've ever found any commercially available dowel stock that was exactly the diameter it's supposed to be. I don't know if it's shrinkage factor or just poor quality control in the factories they're turning these out of...but they're almost always slightly thinner than their stated diameter...or worse...oblong. Which isn't a big deal in terms of the drill bit, because your good brad point set probably contains a 23/64" and an 11/32" which would give you a nice tight fit...but they do not make router bits in these odd sizes, so you'd end up with some slop in your tenon hole. No good. So that's something to consider. You'll probably have to use a dowel plate or Shane's bad ass Veritas dowel maker kit that I'm still waiting for him to give me for Christmas. @shaneymack What's up with that, yo? Waiting. Still waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Eric. said: I'll add one more wrinkle before you go buy that straight bit... You might have to create your own dowels to use this technique we just improvised. Because...I'm not sure I've ever found any commercially available dowel stock that was exactly the diameter it's supposed to be. I don't know if it's shrinkage factor or just poor quality control in the factories they're turning these out of...but they're almost always slightly thinner than their stated diameter...or worse...oblong. Which isn't a big deal in terms of the drill bit, because your good brad point set probably contains a 23/64" and an 11/32" which would give you a nice tight fit...but they do not make router bits in these odd sizes, so you'd end up with some slop in your tenon hole. No good. So that's something to consider. You'll probably have to use a dowel plate or Shane's bad ass Veritas dowel maker kit that I'm still waiting for him to give me for Christmas. @shaneymack What's up with that, yo? Waiting. Still waiting. The 1st time I used draw bore joints was for the legs of my workbench & I really didn't want to screw it up. So I made half a dozen or so MT test joints with incremental offsets. These are fairly large tenons so I used 1/2" dowels. The sweet spot was 3/32". 1/8" was just a little too much & the dowel broke in a couple of the tests. With that much offset, the ends of the dowels have to be rounded & I eased the edges of the holes in the tenons. I used a 2 Lb hammer to drive the dowels. After the glue cured I cut the joints in half to check the results. It was pretty cool the way that the dowel bends as much as it does without breaking. I wish I'd taken some pics of them. I needed 32 dowels & after riving just a couple I said screw it & went shopping. Lee Valley sells some really good dowel that is dead on 1/2". I picked through the bin to get the straightest grain but still ended up with about 25% waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted May 7, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 1 hour ago, drzaius said: The 1st time I used draw bore joints was for the legs of my workbench & I really didn't want to screw it up. So I made half a dozen or so MT test joints with incremental offsets. These are fairly large tenons so I used 1/2" dowels. The sweet spot was 3/32". That's probably about the offset I used on my bench, too. But a bench is a beast and the parts are huge, so the bigger dowels and larger offsets and two pound hammers are appropriate there. The offsets I use on a typical furniture drawbore will be smaller. The thinner the panel, the thinner the tenon, and the more care that has to be taken not to break out the short grain between the tenon pin hole and the end of the tenon. In certain cases there will be enough meat behind the hole that you can get a little more aggressive...sometimes you can't. So ultimately the size of the offset depends on the thickness of the panel and the meat behind the tenon hole. Also the pins can get difficult to drive through the holes if your offset is too great (thank you Mr. Obvious) and no one wants to beat too hard around an already-milled and semi-surfaced panel with a freakin' framing hammer...that would be a dent you couldn't iron out. LOL The other problem is if the pin takes too hard of a bend around a giant offset, the pin will approach the bottom breadboard hole slightly curved and pressed HARD against one side of the hole...and at exit can grab a chunk of fibers and blow it out, despite the chamfer you put on the end of the pin. I usually also chamfer the exit hole just slightly to help prevent this, but it's still possible. I once had such disastrous blowout that I had to glue a chunk back in. Bottom of the table, yeah...but still, it's a moment where you use profanity. The ends of the pin should always be chamfered or rounded - or - if you have a ton to do, you can use my ten second jig to sharpen them into pencils... Sorry for the derail into drawbore minutiae, dub. Carry on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 10 hours ago, Eric. said: ...so you'd end up with some slop in your tenon hole... So? You are only holding against one side of the tenon hole, right? A tight fit in the show face is a must but I don't see a little wiggle room in the tenon as a problem unless it is on the wrong side of the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 3 hours ago, C Shaffer said: unless it is on the wrong side of the hole. Exactly. As long as you're aware of this you can probably avoid it...and I have in the past. But grinding out wood fibers with a rat tail rasp is not exactly precision work, and every time I do it I'm thinking all the while, "There's got to be a better way than this." It's splitting hairs, but it's about improvement, refining techniques, efficiency, precision. I don't like guessing. Guessing leads to screw-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 OK, I'm a wuss. I swore I would have all four drawer fronts done before I quit today; I failed. I jointed, planed, width and length cut all four blanks. Raised all four faces. I didn't get the edges completely done but, that's just some short plane work. I got distracted by the top as it was in the way of where I wanted to do the raised panels. I pared off the pegs and got the top moved out of the way. Any sharp chisel that will reach will do this job. I like a wider one as it gives me a larger bearing surface and helps me do a smoother job. Nobody will ever see these once the top is in position. I use a No 5 often enough to raise panels but, I have been finding myself reaching for a BU smoother more and more for this job. I couldn't seem to get the light right to show the panels and the drawer divider profiles (or I just take poor pictures). The design on this guy is pretty traditional so I am playing around with some "Maloof rounds" on the drawer dividers to try to make things interesting. The false fronts are just setting on the drawer boxes but, you get the general idea. The raised fields are on the same plane as the front of the "rounds". Once things are attached I can stand the unit up and get pics at a better angel and you will be able to see what I am trying for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2017 Some long days at the office and some weekend work sure put a cramp in my shop time. The drawer fronts are ready for finish. You've seen me do this before. I make the pulls out of a single blank and keep them oriented so that the figure follows them when mounted. I mark the blank. And rip smaller blanks for the pulls out of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Still draggin' ya along in baby steps . I have sloppily gone over my layout in white so you can see it better. I will be using threaded inserts on these pulls. I drill for them and then use the drill press . . . With it UNPLUGGED or the switch locked out . . . To thread in the inserts. I grab some randon ply scraps to make a jig for sanding. In one piece I drill holes to match the threaded insert positions. And attach that piece to a longer piece. I rough-cut the pull on the bandsaw and attach it to the jig with machine screws. This monstrosity is a circle / arc jig that is in desperate need of a version 2. It uses a piece of track and the mating extrusion that I added some stop screws and pivot pins to. The jig gets a hole positioned to give me the radius I want. And the pivot pin gets positioned as well. There is less than 1/16" of material to remove and I basically swing the 'pendulum' back and forth a few times to sand the curve. Then I use a Forstner for the end points of the pull's opening. And bandsaw to connect them and remove the spoil. There is a bit of handwork before these are actually pulls but, here's the general idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Nice rig, Gee-dub! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted May 12, 2017 Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 That jig is far more versatile than the one I built for my edge sander (same model) . Having an extended bed at 90 with a fence lets me sand end grain to remove any saw marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted May 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2017 Thanks guys. I'll put a thread in Jigs n Fixtures if I ever get around to a version 2. This beast is made to catch on a support stand at the far end, has pieces that lock onto a keyed miter slot at the bandsaw and the router table. I guess version 2 better include a more versatile attachment method to allow for the sander table add-on I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gee-dub Posted May 14, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 Squeezed this in before the Mother's Day get together. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 I really wanna touch those handles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 14, 2017 Report Share Posted May 14, 2017 Love those pulls, Gee-dub! Did you put a lot of thought into the grain pattern before cutting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gee-dub Posted May 15, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 13 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: Love those pulls, Gee-dub! Did you put a lot of thought into the grain pattern before cutting? Thanks guys. Funny you should ask. I actually had that blank of walnut setting around with the word PULLS chalked on the end before I ever started picking out the cherry . I have a small stack of short, thick cutoffs that I keep (if they look interesting) over by the shorts bin. This one caught my eye for this project while it was still on the drawing board. I pick the figure the same as we might do on any prominent board. I hand plane an area here or scrape an area there to see what's going on. I will frame out an area with tape and let the board set around while I percolate on it, change the taped off "frame" and percolate some more. Not to sound too philosophical or anything but, there's plenty of time between breaking down parts for the carcass and having to actually commit to the pulls so I just let it come. The order will remain as shown but, the whole group may rotate 180 degrees from the pic above. The rotated orientation puts the more lively figured piece at the top drawer. I spend a fair amount of time on details like this but, there is time to be spent while glue dries or lumber rests after initial milling. I'd rather drink a cup of coffee while staring at a piece of lumber trying to decide what's in it than do a lot of other things . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 If you're not thinking about a project like this ^^^ ...you're not trying hard enough. Looking good, gd. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted May 15, 2017 Report Share Posted May 15, 2017 Gee Dub, great progress! You really do fantastic work and have some great jigs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gee-dub Posted May 21, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 Do you ever hit that spot in a project where you think you are at "X" but, soon discover you are at "X"-minus so-many-hours? I did that this morning. I thought I was ready to start applying finish to the carcass and then realized there were all sorts of things I wanted to get done before the shop became a no-dust zone. The back will be half-lap slats. On taller carcasses I do T&G but, this little guy will do fine with half-lap, especially with the extra wide top and bottom stretchers in the rear. If you do much of this sort of a cabinet back it doesn't hurt to keep a bundle of 1/8" thick strips of scrap around. I just keep these with my dowel stock. These let me not only space the slats when it is install time, they let me get exact measurements for final fitting of the odd-sized slats at each end. I find odd sized end slats simpler than carefully calculating the exact width, including tongues to go in slots, and the spaces between slats, blah, blah, blah. I try not to think of this as lazy, just practical. The slats are right off the machines and so not ready for installation but, I wanted to point out this little Millers Falls plane I got from my dad. I keep it super sharp and it is my go-to for easing edges. This is just a dry fit and the odd-sized end slats are not cut to size yet but, it gives you the idea of where I am going with these. The slats get surface prep'd and then shellac'd. They are about the last thing to go in after the carcass has the last coat of finish on and has cured for a few days. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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