Cliff Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 I have been using my LV Cabinet Scraper for the first time today. Running into some slight issues. I got it sharpened up, and got the burnisher going on it. First time, not great. Second time, huge improvement. I'm trying to clean up really deep planer nicks. I will run the scraper along these nicks and it's doing great, getting shavings then it just does nothing. I can't really tighten the screw on the back anymore. I don't think it needs resharpened because if I attack another section it cuts. Then after a while just doesn't do much again. This has got me thinking it's time to get a spiral cutterhead for my Dewalt 735. I literally put brand new blades on it before running this hickory through. I was hoping to not have to drop another $400 on a $600 planer, but maybe I need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 It might need to be resharpened. If you turned too much of a hook it can be brittle and either dull quickly or break off altogether. You also might want to make sure the mouth of the scraper isn't clogged with shavings. A cabinet scraper can be finicky to set up at first. I wouldn't invest in a shelix for a 735. I'd put that money in a piggy bank for either a drum sander or a 15" planer with a shelix. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post James Wright Posted July 2, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 the other problem can be that you are focusing on one spot too much and you have cut out the material there the body of the cabinet scraper could be holding the cutter off the work. in essence, you might be dishing out the work in that spot. Also, if the card is too hard sometimes the bur can break off but I have only seen that once before. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, James Wright said: the other problem can be that you are focusing on one spot too much and you have cut out the material there the body of the cabinet scraper could be holding the cutter off the work. in essence, you might be dishing out the work in that spot. Also, if the card is too hard sometimes the bur can break off but I have only seen that once before. I totally agree. You have a hollow spoat and the blade can't reach the bottom of it. When working on a bad spot you have to work on the surrounding area as well, just not as much. Also, I like to set my blade up in the scraper so that when I first put the blade it it takes very little (almost none) turn on the screw to take the blade from not cutting to cutting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 30 minutes ago, Eric. said: It might need to be resharpened. If you turned too much of a hook it can be brittle and either dull quickly or break off altogether. You also might want to make sure the mouth of the scraper isn't clogged with shavings. A cabinet scraper can be finicky to set up at first. I wouldn't invest in a shelix for a 735. I'd put that money in a piggy bank for either a drum sander or a 15" planer with a shelix. I know where you stand on the shelix for the 735. I knew writing that would trigger you On the other hand.. I $400 < $1500+ Know what I mean? In the short term. I know what is the smart investment, I'm just not sure what I'll do yet. Drum sander would be great but I'm concerned I can't fit in in my shop at all. 12 minutes ago, James Wright said: the other problem can be that you are focusing on one spot too much and you have cut out the material there the body of the cabinet scraper could be holding the cutter off the work. in essence, you might be dishing out the work in that spot. Also, if the card is too hard sometimes the bur can break off but I have only seen that once before. So that was exactly what happened. I typed this post, headed back out, and immediately discovered that I had forgotten how planes work. That I need to make it even all the way across. Once I realized that I removed my nicks on the entire drawer front in about 30 seconds. So I guess this post serves as a Rubber Duck and learning experience for anyone goofing up that searches in the future. Also, used your video for sharpening it. So thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted July 2, 2017 Report Share Posted July 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Cliff said: This has got me thinking it's time to get a spiral cutterhead for my Dewalt 735. I literally put brand new blades on it before running this hickory through. I was hoping to not have to drop another $400 on a $600 planer, but maybe I need to. I bought my 735 in 2010 when HD closed them out, paid $279.00, at the time they were retailing for $599.00 I used that sale price to justify continually replacing the blades, moved up to better blades from Infinity, and finally realized how much money I was wasting on blades. I don't have room for a large planer, hell I don't have room for an 8" jointer. I put the Shelix head in the 735 and never looked back. Wish I did it years ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Just Bob said: I bought my 735 in 2010 when HD closed them out, paid $279.00, at the time they were retailing for $599.00 I used that sale price to justify continually replacing the blades, moved up to better blades from Infinity, and finally realized how much money I was wasting on blades. I don't have room for a large planer, hell I don't have room for an 8" jointer. I put the Shelix head in the 735 and never looked back. Wish I did it years ago. That's what I'm thinking too. I can keep buying blades at $50 or more.. that's what 8 times of buying it to equal a shelix head? Doesn't seem that bad of an idea. And in the meantime, my cleanup work is way less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Can you post a picture of the planer "nicks"? It may be that you are expecting too much wood removal for a scraper. Almost any planer is not a finishing machine. I can let planer knives get pretty bad before I need to swap them because final finish is done with other methods. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Pretty well covered here as far as depth of tear out, feelings on throwing the cost of an insert head at a lunchbox planer and scraper blade sharpening. I have this scraper and so thought my experiences with it might give you a feeling for the tool in use . . . at least by me. I rarely have to engage the camber knob more than just beyond "snug". That is, I think if you are running out of threads on the camber knob, camber is not your problem. I sharpen and install my blade pretty much per the included instructions Since you are getting satisfactory results and then losing them I would check that the blade is not moving on you. Once I install the blade per the directions I only have to use the camber knob to the point where there is a bit of resistance. The difference between not cutting and cutting is a fraction of a rotation. I reserve the cabinet scraper for finer work at one end of the spectrum and glue bleed removal at the other. I ignore the current state of the hook for glue scraping and put a new hook on before doing finer work. I do keep the hook to a minimum. Using a tool with a sole to remove tear out means changing the level of an area at least as wide as that sole. That is, you cannot do detail work on surface blemishes or small tear outs in a surgical-strike sort of way. For deeper tear out or smaller areas I prefer a card scraper for this reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, gee-dub said: Using a tool with a sole to remove tear out means changing the level of an area at least as wide as that sole. That is, you cannot do detail work on surface blemishes or small tear outs in a surgical-strike sort of way. For deeper tear out or smaller areas I prefer a card scraper for this reason. Honestly a cabinet scraper or card scraper are not great tools for removing any tearout that isn't very very light because of the dishing out problem. A surface with any significant tearout needs to be drum sanded or hand planed in order to keep it flat. You might be able to remove the tearout with a scraper, but dollars to donuts once the surface is finished, you'll be able to see the low spots in a raking light...and there's always a raking light on finished pieces in the house. No good. Once the scrapers come out the surface needs to be close to perfect already...like Master Dub said...it's for "finer work." Meaning, the last step before a little 220 sanding just before finish. It's not really meant to be a material removal tool. You can use a cabinet scraper to level glued-up panels, but in that case you're knocking down high spots rather than digging into an already-level surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 A picture of the hickory would help. 1) the 735 tends to tear out if the dust blower is clogged or not clearing the chips 2) wet stock also tends to tear out/get fuzzy. If it is air dried it might not be ready I bought some CMT knives for mine and they are working fantastically. Personally I think shelix heads are over rated. sharp straight knives will work great on most material, even figured stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, Mike. said: Personally I think shelix heads are over rated. For cut quality, yes...since even a shelix-cut surface will need more work after a planer. But for maintenance, no comparison. That's the primary reason I upgraded. Cut quality is a distant second (although it is better than straight knives ). Knife changes can eat from my butt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 sharp straight knives give a better surface than a fresh shelix Changing knives on a 735 takes about 20 minutes. rotating 163 inserts? Yes, you can defer rotating your inserts for a much longer time, but overall I don't think it is worth the extra cost (especially on a lunchbox). I actually do think they are somewhat valuable on a jointer, because you don't need to worry about grain direction as much, so you can joint your edges at complementary angles and not worry about your fence being perfectly 90. Although watch out if one of the inserts shatters will the head is spinning Been there, done that But, in general i think Byrd geads are just another thing for dudes with $1mln houses and $200k shops to sell on youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike. said: But, in general i think Byrd geads are just anithing thing for dudes with $1mln houses and $200k shops to sell on youtube. They're actually less expensive over time. I get here you're coming from but, don't want to to give folks the wrong idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 what is the wrong idea? Byrd heads are sold as some kind of cure-all. I don't agree with that. Cliff is thinking about spending $500+ to upgrade a 735 when I guarantee he can get amazing results with sharp straight knives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Mike. said: what is the wrong idea? Byrd heads are sold as some kind of cure-all. I don't agree with that. Cliff is thinking about spending $500+ to upgrade a 735 when I guarantee he can get amazing results with sharp straight knives. I agree. On a lunchbox... not worth the upgrade. On a stand-alone, I see more value in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Personally I think it is value neutral and has created this idea that you can't get good results with straight knives, which is kind of ridiculous. I have run bird's eye maple through my 735 with sharp knives on the slow speed (more cuts per inch). Almost finish ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 I've had a Shelix on my planer for more than two years, and on the jointer for almost two years. I've rotated the cutters exactly zero times. Still get clean cuts in all but the gnarliest grain which straight knives would do no better on. How many times have you changed your knives in the last couple years? Remember...the thing I enjoy least about woodworking is tool maintenance. I'd rather sand than mess with machines. So the extra cost for Shelix is well worth it for me. As for cut quality, it's basically moot for me because I send everything through the drum sander right after the planer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Like I said, I think it is a value neutral. I just hate to see people spend money to fix problems that can be fixed for free. Only one who benefits are the content producers and tool manufacturers. I had an insert crack in my jointer about 6 months after I installed it about 3 years ago. My guess is they over torqued it at the factory. After installing a new one I had to rotate every single insert to get a nice surface. Otherwise the fresh cutter would leave a slightly deeper surface. I would hate to do that on a planer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 I wouldn't care because it's headed to the DS anyway. Fingers crossed...I haven't had any insert explosions yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Helical head is the best decision i ever made in my shop. I couldn't imagine having to deal with straight knives again. The straight knives are sharper arguement is nonsense. They are sharper for how long? 15 minutes? With the helical head you can use your jointer and planer as a hobbyist for years and years and never have any sharpening or maintenance on the cutters regardless of which woods your are working with. Worth every penny. And I don't have a 200k shop or a million dollar home.... Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, shaneymack said: And I don't have a 200k shop or a million dollar home.... If you buy one more systainer you would! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 If you buy one more systainer you would! Not true, most of them are in the trailer, not in the shop so technically it doesn't count ! LOL Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Llama said: If you buy one more systainer you would! A home built out of Systainers? Festool Legos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 3, 2017 Report Share Posted July 3, 2017 Do you have a million dollar trailer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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