Minwax oil modified polyurethane vs GF Enduro var

[SawDustB]

Hey guys,

I'm looking at buying finish for my book case project. My favoured finish is currently General finishes Enduro var. It's water based, so it sprays well and dries quickly, but it seems tough and has the amber hue of an oil finish. I realized I'm likely going to need more than a quart can for this project, which run me about $48 each. I'm not crazy about spending over $100 in finish after tax.

I looked around, and it seems like the Minwax oil modified polyurethane is close to the same thing. It's also water based, with the amber hue and other characteristics I described above. The difference is I can go to home Depot and buy a gallon for $62. The question is, what am I giving up (if anything)? Most of the reviews I can find are DIY types, who brushed it on and complained about the watery consistency. I intend to spray with hvlp, so bear that in mind.

I should add, oil based (arm r seal) is out right now because it would stink up the house. I try to avoid solvent based, other than lacquer, until I can leave windows open.

Thanks!

[Chestnut]

Have you tried laying on a coat of dewaxed shellac and than WB on top? I've done that a few times and like how it looks. Other wise i only have used GF and Varathane waterborne polys

[SawDustB]

I have. It looks pretty good, but I prefer if I only have one thing to spray. I find the rattle cans of shellac go fast, even with just 1 coat. I really like the look of something like arm r seal, but my wife really objects to the smell. Our garage is connected off our kitchen, so it's hard to keep the smell out unless I can open the garage door or window.

Enduro var is pretty close to ideal in my books, except I can only buy it in quart cans at Lee Valley so it adds up for a bigger project.

[Chestnut]

Oh i guess i usually hand apply shellac. I noticed they sell 8 oz cans of that oil based stuff can you get that to try it? I know a lot of people complain about minwax products as being inferior or poor quality.

[Chet]

40 minutes ago, SawDustB said:

I can only buy it in quart cans at Lee Valley so it adds up for a bigger project

Have you tried getting it though Amazon up there?

[wtnhighlander]

I have no experience with the water borne stuff, but my view of Minwax overall is pretty good.

But I also don't spray. Hand-applied poly or shellac all the way, baby!

[wdwerker]

I hold no ill will  towards Minwax other than their stains. The fast drying poly has its risks but if you play by the rules it does dry fast. But there are so many better stains on the market. Try a few and see what works for you. 

[SawDustB]

1 hour ago, Chet said:

Have you tried getting it though Amazon up there?

I looked. Amazon is really not the same here - a lot of this stuff is through third party vendors at ridiculous prices. The quart cans that were $48 at Lee Valley were listed at on average double the price, depending on sheen. I could try through the American site, but then there's so much shipping and duty tacked on it's not usually worth it.

[SawDustB]

2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Oh i guess i usually hand apply shellac. I noticed they sell 8 oz cans of that oil based stuff can you get that to try it? I know a lot of people complain about minwax products as being inferior or poor quality.

That's not a bad thought. At least then I can see on something small.

[ktb15]

https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Finishes-1-gal-Satin-Enduro-Clear-Poly-Interior-Topcoat-GF-GPS/303498622?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-AllProducts|&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5fDWBRDaARIsAA5uWThY7JZPkCGjsS5hxDohvAff7hzC9AidkWzgMx61ST8nqlCqRp9EWu8aAimKEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CJCfucKWz9oCFYIWhwodalcAmA

 

This sprays nice and you can add some dye as a toner to make it look like enduro var

[SawDustB]

9 hours ago, ktb15 said:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-Finishes-1-gal-Satin-Enduro-Clear-Poly-Interior-Topcoat-GF-GPS/303498622?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-AllProducts|&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5fDWBRDaARIsAA5uWThY7JZPkCGjsS5hxDohvAff7hzC9AidkWzgMx61ST8nqlCqRp9EWu8aAimKEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CJCfucKWz9oCFYIWhwodalcAmA

 

This sprays nice and you can add some dye as a toner to make it look like enduro var

Thanks... I probably should have clarified: I'm in Canada. I can only really get GF products from Lee Valley, at which point I may as well just buy the Enduro var since it's only a couple dollars more.

[Chestnut]

If i remember right it's not only Canada but also don't you live in a more rural area that stuff is harder to get? I have a can of that minwax stuff on order from amazon want to wait 2 days and i can try it and give you some thoughts. I'm interested personally because i want a nice WB poly to spray for those game boards i make.

[SawDustB]

2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

If i remember right it's not only Canada but also don't you live in a more rural area that stuff is harder to get?

I'm not in a rural area, exactly - I'm right in Halifax, which is roughly 400,000 people, but there's nothing else of comparable size until you get into Quebec, about 1000 km (600 miles) away. When I was shopping for tools, there are some stores that aren't here and don't bother because there aren't many people in the region. Some of the other Canadians in the forum live in Ontario or Alberta, where there's considerably more choice. I'm also nowhere near the border (5 hours to Maine) so that's not a great option either.

2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

I have a can of that minwax stuff on order from amazon want to wait 2 days and i can try it and give you some thoughts. I'm interested personally because i want a nice WB poly to spray for those game boards i make.

That would be great, thanks. I doubt I'll be finishing for another two weeks or so, since I still need to glue up the project and build the drawers. I'll be interested to hear how it sprays compared to the General Finishes products you've used.

[Chestnut]

My apologies, i remembered you saying a few times that you have limited stores and shops near you, i jumped to a conclusion that you lived in a more rural area.

I just watched super troopers 2 and did research on the halifax explosion, random comment but i can understand how people aren't happy with rob lowe over that whole skit on Jimmy Kimmel he seemed a bit tactless. I don't know if you heard about that. The 1917 explosion is an interesting, and terrible event.

[SawDustB]

1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

My apologies, i remembered you saying a few times that you have limited stores and shops near you, i jumped to a conclusion that you lived in a more rural area.

I just watched super troopers 2 and did research on the halifax explosion, random comment but i can understand how people aren't happy with rob lowe over that whole skit on Jimmy Kimmel he seemed a bit tactless. I don't know if you heard about that. The 1917 explosion is an interesting, and terrible event.

No problem, just figured I'd clarify. The geography can be both good and bad - if there is going to be a store in the area, it's usually within a half hour drive. If it's further away, then it's probably in Quebec or Ontario.

Yes, I heard about it, although I didn't see it. Predictably, our local news and politicians are all worked up over it. The historical aspect of the explosion is interesting (and terrible, as you noted), since it shaped how the city developed, with so many buildings being destroyed.

[AceHoleInOne]

If the bookcase  is more of a "display" and not receiving  a lot of use such as dragging books in and out. I would say to look at a water based lacquer from General Finishes, however it has no amber. 

If this piece is going to get heavy use, suck it up and rock on with the Enduro-Var, it's tough stuff and takes a beating. 

Not sure what the price of the MW Mod is or its durability? If the piece is going to get light use -- I say try the MW Mod.  

 

-Ace-

 

[SawDustB]

2 hours ago, AceHoleInOne said:

If the bookcase  is more of a "display" and not receiving  a lot of use such as dragging books in and out. I would say to look at a water based lacquer from General Finishes, however it has no amber. 

If this piece is going to get heavy use, suck it up and rock on with the Enduro-Var, it's tough stuff and takes a beating. 

Not sure what the price of the MW Mod is or its durability? If the piece is going to get light use -- I say try the MW Mod.  

 

-Ace-

 

Thanks Ace. This is for my four year old daughter's room, so I'm assuming it's going to have a bit of a hard life. On the other hand, the other shelves I did have paint topped with polycrylic, and they've been fine. I may wait on Drew's report and buy the Minwax if it seems decent. The Minwax was about 1/3 the price if I buy a gallon, or around 1/2 the price if I buy a quart.

[AJ_Engineer]

I just ordered some GF cans from Woodessense.com in Sask (they also have some other locations out east). Shipping was not too bad and looks like getting a gallon to NS is only $20. I also liked their customer service, quite helpful in some product questions and suggestions. A fair bit cheaper than Lee Valley.

There was another supplier in Quebec (don't have the name in my notes) but shipping costs ruled them out for me.

That said, I have a few sets of bookshelves in the house that I just used a Minwax wiping poly on and they have held up fine. So far the toddler hasn't damaged them, only the moving company.

[SawDustB]

Thanks AJ, I'll check it out.

 

That is much better. I can get a gallon of it (Enduro var) for $120 including shipping. I had no idea these guys existed.

[Chestnut]

I got the can of Minwax oil-modified (MWOMP) last night but installed a ceiling fan instead of trying it out. I might not spray it but I'll do a test board with a few finishes on it to see how it looks. I'm curious for myself as well how this till hold up.

My plan is to do Endurovar , MWOMP side by side.

Also shellac under the 4 WB polys i have Varathane, Endurovar, GF High Performance, and the MWOMP.

I'm going to do a section with wipe on poly as well i should go grab a small can or ARS just for comparison sake. I'll probably do this on Cherry and I think i have a piece of birch i can hit with the finishes as well.

[SawDustB]

1 hour ago, Chestnut said:

I got the can of Minwax oil-modified (MWOMP) last night but installed a ceiling fan instead of trying it out. I might not spray it but I'll do a test board with a few finishes on it to see how it looks. I'm curious for myself as well how this till hold up.

My plan is to do Endurovar , MWOMP side by side.

Also shellac under the 4 WB polys i have Varathane, Endurovar, GF High Performance, and the MWOMP.

I'm going to do a section with wipe on poly as well i should go grab a small can or ARS just for comparison sake. I'll probably do this on Cherry and I think i have a piece of birch i can hit with the finishes as well.

Awesome, thanks. I'll be interested to see how it turns out. 

[Chestnut]

32 minutes ago, SawDustB said:

Awesome, thanks. I'll be interested to see how it turns out. 

Tonight!, I'll probably do multiple coats but the first coat of everything should be dryish tonight. The ARS comparison might come later i'll buy it this weekend.

[AceHoleInOne]

Back in the day when Enduro-Var reached the market. It was advised not to use shellac under it. The product is self-sealing and over shellac --- adhesion could become an issue. Now they have a disclaimer on the website "use at your own risk" over non supported products. 

 

-Ace-

[wdwerker]

That's good to know. I use M L Campbell waterbourne finishes so I've only used Generals dyes and stains.

[Chestnut]

6 hours ago, AceHoleInOne said:

Back in the day when Enduro-Var reached the market. It was advised not to use shellac under it. The product is self-sealing and over shellac --- adhesion could become an issue. Now they have a disclaimer on the website "use at your own risk" over non supported products. 

 

-Ace-

From what I've seen below i don't know that there is a point to put shellac under it. Though i don't know why it over dewaxed shellac would matter but I'm not a finish expert. Also from what I've seen 1 coat of 2lb cut shellac isn't enough to seal the wood so the WB polys were raising the gran and soaking into the wood <shrug>.

Going to start with the conclusion because that's all that any one cares about. The Minwax Oil Modified poly (MWOMP) seems very comparable to Endurovar in application and appearance. BOOO HISS yeah a $10 can appears to be as good as a $32 can. All i can speak for is appearance after 1 coat. I'll continue to the recommended 3 coats and update probably Sunday.

The surprises, High Performanc by GF. It left a waxy smooth finish that was unlike the other 4 polys. It might be able to be seen in some of the picture but i didn't notice until i ran my hands across it.

The worst finish by far is Varathane, no surprises there. That being said I use it and still like it for being a cheap WB poly to spray. I can spray it flat and get a dang fine finish.

Image1: Shows the finish in the can, finish is wet on the board in front.

Image 2: 4 Finishes on Birtch sans Shellac, 2 pieces of cherry with MWOMP & Endurovar (EV) The cans are in order.

Image 3: Same as previous with shellac undercoat. Different angle to exaggerate finishes with a more raking light.

Image 4: Different light angle of Picture 2.

Image 5: Shallow angle of finishes with shellac undercoat. Note last 2 finish patches.

Image 6: Cherry sticks MWOMP left EV right

End notes. The Varathane was by far the thickest and it's the finish I've sprayed the most. I've probably put down a gallon and a half of it this year alone. If the other finishes are better and handle an HVLP better they will spray perfectly. I put a picture below of a sprayed finish using varathane on White Poplar (i think). I put 2 I tried to get the best light for showing flaws and this is the best i could do.