Stefano Pellegrino Grottoli Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Hi everyone - first post, first wood work ever, and a lot of learning along the way. So, i'm refinishing my outdoor table which is in a pretty bad shape. Lots of cracks to be filled with. i'm following the instructions on the video about refinishing the outdoor table. I started from one of the benches, so if I mess up, I won't mess up the table itself. The thing is West System epoxy is super expensive, and I think I'll need a lot of it to fill all the cracks in the wood (it spent 2 years without any outdoor finish exposed to the weather). Any alternatives that have good quality, but are more affordable than West System epoxy? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Welcome to the forums! There's lots of alternatives out there but, I'm not too sure that any of them are going to save you any substantial money. The 5 minute epoxy from the big box stores is certainly cheaper but, by the time you buy enough to do what you're describing, you'll have spent a lot more than the West System set up. System 3 is another option and I really haven't priced it so, maybe a possibility? In the end, the shelf life on the West Systems is great so, if you don't use it all up on this project, you will certainly use it on others. My current can has been in my shop for well over a year and I used it just today. Good luck and be sure to share your progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 I've dealt with Jamestown Distributors for decades. I stick with West, only because I've used it for over 30 years, and understand it. Jamestown came out with their own brand a while back. I'm sure it's good too. I think it may be some cheaper. https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=64343 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Not sure exactly what you are trying to do. I use West System for a lot of my stuff, but if I am trying to restore rotted or very large gaps on outdoor stuff I use this by Abatron. https://www.abatron.com/product/liquidwood/ It's $40.00 they also sell a 2 part putty epoxy that works well, with their liquids. But it does add to the expense. The Abatron is thinner than WS so in my opinion penetrates small cracks better than WS. But I would not use it as an adhesive. This is their 2 part putty, https://www.abatron.com/product/woodepox/ I would use the putty on the cracks if they are very large. One of the nice things about the putty is that it can be thinned using their epoxy so it is very easy to force it into cracks. The down side to the putty is that it is white, so you have to come up with some creative coloring to get it to match wood. It does paint well if you are just going to paint. I have used this with fiberglass material to fill in large areas of rotted wood. It holds up well, and a little bit seems to go a long ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Cheaper epoxy from a home center may not behave well outdoors. Even quality epoxy should be protected from UV. Yea, buying a kit of West systems or some other quality epoxy can be a big chunk of $ but it has a pretty long shelf life. It is nice to be able to mix a small amount whenever you need it. Epoxy fills gaps in poorly fitting joinery , yellow glue does not. If you are starting out doing woodwork it might be nice to have something to save having to re-make a part. I use it when I need more time to get all the parts in a complex glue up aligned before the glue starts setting up. You might not have this many clamps or want to build complex things without any metal fasteners but it's nice to have the option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Z. Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 The Jamestown TotalBoat system is good, and less expensive. I like System Three, and MAS works well too. Whatever you do, don't forget a UV resistant finish when you are done, because epoxy is sensitive to UV, and you don't want to have to do this all over again in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 There has been a lot of Eco-poxy used on the Y'tubes of late. Probably not a cost savings, but it is environmentally friendly. Looooooong cure time, so bubbles have time to escape without resorting to torches or heat guns. I think the offer a UV resistant flavor, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 A liter of UV Eco-poxy is $45 and should cover about 25 square feet, According to what I just read. Interesting product line, stuff for concrete floors, wood tables/bartops and even a glow in the dark product ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisc Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 That's about what the WS 207 kit I bought recently cost. A 5 litre kit for $200. It'll last years though. I was watching a video about a bed headboard with an epoxy river and he said that 18 litres of epoxy went into it. $45 a litre for that kind of job seems a little crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 West system offers handy packs that have 6 dosses of epoxy. i don't know how much volume they are but the kit seems to be comparable in price to the inferior stuff sold at box stores (not to bash, the strength and ductility are not comparable). It's the same resin and hardener as their can kits just in smaller quantities. If you compare price to price the big kits are WAY cheaper than any other small kit alternative. The gallon kit calcs out to around $1.25 per dose for a volume comparable to a $5 kit form the box store. For buying it check west systems dealer search it's very effective. Generally a boat repair shop will carry it and sell to public. My thought is they get a retailer discount for their own use. https://www.westsystem.com/handy-repair-pack/ If you want to try the epoxy out the handy pack is a good way. If you think you're going to use epoxy even every once and a while consider the gallon kit. You'll sink $150-$200 into it but mine is going on 5 years. The product doesn't really have a shelf life if you store it in a climate controlled space. I always suggest the 207 kit unless you really need/want a faster cure. 207 has good UV resistant properties. Stays clear and is equally as strong (within 5%) as the other hardeners. 24 minutes ago, lewisc said: That's about what the WS 207 kit I bought recently cost. A 5 litre kit for $200. It'll last years though. I was watching a video about a bed headboard with an epoxy river and he said that 18 litres of epoxy went into it. $45 a litre for that kind of job seems a little crazy. Liter of cola ... do we make liter of cola? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Pellegrino Grottoli Posted June 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 Thank you so much guys! So I bought already the quarter kit from them, and in just one of the benches I think I might have used 30% of it! I will take some pictures tomorrow and then you guys can give me your opinion. Thank you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisc Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 9 hours ago, Chestnut said: Liter of cola ... do we make liter of cola? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewisc Posted June 23, 2018 Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, Stefano Pellegrino Grottoli said: Thank you so much guys! So I bought already the quarter kit from them, and in just one of the benches I think I might have used 30% of it! I will take some pictures tomorrow and then you guys can give me your opinion. Thank you! You’ve probaly already worked it out but don’t forget to seal off the bottom of the cracks. Masking tape works for small jobs. I’ve used duct tape for bigger jobs as it’s a bit cheaper. The epoxy finds all sorts of ways to escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Pellegrino Grottoli Posted June 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 Hey guys! This is an outdoor table set (1 table and 2 benches) that I bought of reclaimed wood back when I was living in Brazil. It was really rustic and beautiful, but surely not suited to be exposed to weather. I live in NJ so we have all 4 seasons really strong. I'm trying to replicate this outdoor finish here (https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/durable-outdoor-finish/) So, as promised here you will find 3 sets of pictures: - the table that is currently outside (with one of the benches) - as you will see, it's in a pretty bad shape, millions of cracks, sap all over it, and a lot of work to do - A chair that belongs to the original set that was kept inside my house (no exposition to weather or sun). - The first bench that I've been working at - so far I machine sanded it, and started to pour the epoxy resin on the cracks. I have the following questions (please use the numbers when answering) 1) Should I fill the gaps between the boards that compose the table and benches? I'm still not sure if I should 2) Should I fill the gaps between the boards on the corners? (There are some specific pictures of the borders here) 3) Should I fill those tiny cracks on the boards? Not between them, but the really small ones. I know that I have to fill the "structural" cracks that can compromise the stability of the wood, but those "grainy" ones should I fill them? 4) Would you guys fill cracks under the table and benches, or just on the top of it? (again, I will fill the structural ones). 5) How would you remove the sap? Just sand over it? Or would you use some sort of chemical to remove it? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 25, 2018 Report Share Posted June 25, 2018 I wouldn't fill the gaps between boards in the table top. Fill them will allow the boards to push against each other as it swells from moisture, and very likely destroy the outer frame. Outdoor tables have those gaps on purpose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefano Pellegrino Grottoli Posted June 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: I wouldn't fill the gaps between boards in the table top. Fill them will allow the boards to push against each other as it swells from moisture, and very likely destroy the outer frame. Outdoor tables have those gaps on purpose. Quick question - I will use a couple of coats of CPES after sanding the epoxy resin layer. I read somewhere that an epoxy sealer will likely prevent the wood from stretching and shrinking. Considering that, you would still not fill the gap between the boards? Not challenging your question at all, I'm just a total newbie, and am trying to do the best! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted June 26, 2018 Report Share Posted June 26, 2018 Sealing the wood, even totally encasing it in a coat of epoxy, will slow the absorbtion and release of moisture, but not likely stop it. You might get away with it in a climate-controlled environment, but outdoors, I think it will come back and bite you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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