drzaius Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Clearness should not matter here cause it's just a glue line. Even if it is amber colored, it shouldn't affect the final look much at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Ok! - So the questions just keep on coming. - With my miter for the butcher block: 1) Even though it will be cut out for the sink, should I still connect the entire joint with biscuits and glue to ensure a continuous connection before sink cutout?. I'm thinking 3 rows of double biscuits (6 total) in the back where the actual miter will remain after the cutting for the sink, with two tite joint bolts in between, two single biscuits and epoxy at the end of the joint that will be cut out. 2) When applying epoxy to the joint/biscuit setup: what tool would work here to apply/spread evenly? a brush? a syringe? 3) Re: Epoxy and biscuits: a) Should epoxy be applied to the face of the miter angle, spread all over the wood in addition to the biscuit receptacle? b) ) Is the procedure for the biscuit technique as follows: epoxy in the biscuit receptacle slot, not on the biscuit itself, smoothed around in the receptacle with say a popsicle stick? c) Should I take any measures here to prevent telegraphing with the biscuits, or does the butcher block thickness prevent that concern here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Also, this might be a stupid question, but with a miter 45, what is a good method to ensure proper alignment with biscuits before connecting?. Connecting the miter 45 biscuits seems slightly more difficult than a straight butt joint and I want to get it right. - Could it be as easy as establishing the holes/locations for the biscuit containing slots first, then marking corresponding center points/rough pencil lines refelcted on the top of the face of the wood, align the joint flush, and then transfer a similar pencil marking across to the other piece of countertop? Maybe practice on a few pieces of scrap? Perhaps I'm overthinking it but wouldn't the receptacle biscuit slot need to be maybe just sliiiiightly (1/16 - 1/8") ahead of the slot containing the biscuit to account for the miter angle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1. I don't see the need to glue the area where the sink will be cut out. 2. Those cheap acid brushes work great. Sometimes trimming a little length off makes them better. 3a. Definitely spread a generous layer of epoxy on the biscuit & in the slot as well as the face of the miter cut. 3b. Just spread the epoxy on all surfaces to be joined. 3c. My understanding of the telegraph issue is that it happens when the biscuits swell from the moisture in the glue. The slab is then sanded when said biscuit are in a swollen state. Then weeks later, when all the moisture evaporates, the biscuits shrink back down leaving a depression. Epoxy has no water in it so it doesn't cause this problem. The 2 counters I did with miter joints & biscuits did not have any telegraphing. You are waaayyy overthinking the biscuit placement issue. Just line up the 2 slabs just as they will be glued & put a pencil mark across both sides of the joint where there will be a biscuit. Just make sure the slots are well clear of the sink cutout & remember the slot is longer than the biscuit. Trust me, it sucks to have a biscuit slot showing when you trim a board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankstick Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 For gluing, applying dye to pen blanks, etc., I get 100 cheap paint brushes from Oriental Trading for about $5-6. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/22/2018 at 12:17 PM, drzaius said: 1. I don't see the need to glue the area where the sink will be cut out. 2. Those cheap acid brushes work great. Sometimes trimming a little length off makes them better. 3a. Definitely spread a generous layer of epoxy on the biscuit & in the slot as well as the face of the miter cut. 3b. Just spread the epoxy on all surfaces to be joined. 3c. My understanding of the telegraph issue is that it happens when the biscuits swell from the moisture in the glue. The slab is then sanded when said biscuit are in a swollen state. Then weeks later, when all the moisture evaporates, the biscuits shrink back down leaving a depression. Epoxy has no water in it so it doesn't cause this problem. The 2 counters I did with miter joints & biscuits did not have any telegraphing. You are waaayyy overthinking the biscuit placement issue. Just line up the 2 slabs just as they will be glued & put a pencil mark across both sides of the joint where there will be a biscuit. Just make sure the slots are well clear of the sink cutout & remember the slot is longer than the biscuit. Trust me, it sucks to have a biscuit slot showing when you trim a board. Thanks, you the man! Canadians are the greatest. Given that I'll be screwing in some wood blocks in the area where the sink cutout will be to make a grabbable area for clamps to suck in the miter tight, does it make sense to add tite joints after all is said and done? Once the biscuits and epoxy have setup? Or should that be done simulataneously? Meaning, plan out the span of the joint for both biscuits and tite joint bolts, cut the jig for the tite joint fastener, install and tighten while epoxy dries? Or should this be an after move? Roger that on the biscuits! hahah I tend to overthink!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Lastly, for the 1.5" overhang, would it make sense to use a 2" flush trim router bit? I don't see any perfect half dimension bits out there so I assume this is the play? Is it safe to "edge in" a long cut with this bit as well? Or is the flush trim bit only to flatten the face and another bit should be used to cut a bit more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 Annnnnnd actually lastly (haha I'm sure you are all beyond annoyed at these never ending posts!), for the tite joint fasteners (circular ring and post type), would it make sense to use a forstner bit or a paddle bit for the holes? Seems that a forstner bit would yield a better/cleaner result, but I do not have a drill press. Can this bit be used in a regular drill or even a router? I have a router and obviously a regular drill so that's what I'm left to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 24, 2018 Report Share Posted October 24, 2018 On a slow speed you can use a Forstner bit in a drill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 Use the tite joint bolts as clamps & then just leave them in place. And ya, just use a Forstner in your drill on slow speed with lots of pressure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 Thanks dudes! How about the router bit? If I cut the miter a bit long and want to edge it in to perfection, while also getting the flat joint face, is it safe to use the flush trim router bit for both? 2" for 1.5" overhang? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 Flush trim bit is fine if you have a high quality straight edge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Hey fellas! Quick update and question for you all. - I bought a pretty nice $30 flush trim bit (2" long) with a 1/2" thickness, but sadly my router and the router that was lent to me, both do not accommodate a 1/2" thick bit. The plan was to use this thicker, longer, 2" long bit (with a piece of wood clamped underneath the run for the bearing) in order to hit the entire overhang of the counter in one pass, and doing most of the work upfront. Right now I have a small 1/2" long, smaller thickness bit at my disposal, but given I have 1.5" of overhang to work with, is it stilly and a waste of time to use this 1/2" long flush trim bit in making 3-4 passes to cover the whole overhang? Or should I just find a router to accommodate this larger bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Definitely needs a bigger router. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, wdwerker said: Definitely needs a bigger router. Picked up a plunge/flat base combo. Wayyyyyyyy more like it. Does it make sense to give the miter face (that will be routed) a good sand too? Does that help or hinder here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, rkearns10 said: Does it make sense to give the miter face (that will be routed) a good sand too? Does that help or hinder here? No need & there's a danger that sanding might introduce gaps & unevenness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 OP, I can understand your over thinking as I am there with you. 72 hours of planning and one hour of doing. One thing I might add to @drzaius excellent guide is to use blue painters tape 1/2” or so away from the epoxy glued joint to aid in clean up/sanding when all is dried. It might have been mentioned but I don’t recall, have you made arrangements for pulling-clamping these pieces together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, K Cooper said: OP, I can understand your over thinking as I am there with you. 72 hours of planning and one hour of doing. One thing I might add to @drzaius excellent guide is to use blue painters tape 1/2” or so away from the epoxy glued joint to aid in clean up/sanding when all is dried. It might have been mentioned but I don’t recall, have you made arrangements for pulling-clamping these pieces together? Thanks yeah I'm pretty sure Wdwerker suggested something similiar, even tighter at say 1/8-1/16" right at the joint. For clamping I have some tite joint fasteners, in addition to biscuits and epoxy for alignment. Plan to use 2-3 titejoints in the back of the miter and some wood blocks screwed into the top of the counters where the sink hole will be for some clamps to grab a hold to right at the center of the miter. Tough thing though is that there aren't really any jigs or templates out there for the tite joint fasteners....there is one on amazon but it got god awful ratings. I have dimensions for my hole sizes, it's just nailing down the total distance/separation between the holes to accommodate the length of the bolt. - Going to run through it a few times on my own to get it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 The Tite Joint template/ jig is pretty basic and cheap but it does work. Careful layout works well too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/16/2018 at 10:08 PM, drzaius said: I cut to about +1/8" of the final dimension & brought it to final size with the router. The reason being that my circ saw doesn't leave a joint ready edge. The router leaves a perfect edge & the joint is absolutely tight. It does help to have a sacrificial backer piece so the edge doesn't get blown out on the exit side of the cut, particularly on the inside corner. No point to applying any finish until your completely done with glue up & sanding. Good Doctor, With this "sacrificial backer piece" do you just mean something clamped to the back of the tip of the miter at the inside corner? Something basically to give support behind what's being routed so as not to blow out that tip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 3 hours ago, rkearns10 said: Good Doctor, With this "sacrificial backer piece" do you just mean something clamped to the back of the tip of the miter at the inside corner? Something basically to give support behind what's being routed so as not to blow out that tip? Exactly, the inside corner will be especially prone to blowout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Got it. - So the routing is going well, really getting the hang of it....but my question is on the outside corner, what's a good method to get a nice straight/pointy tip for that right angle? Go inward and establish a cutoff on the overhang side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 30, 2018 Report Share Posted October 30, 2018 Not sure I understand the question. If the straight edge is longer than the cut, then the end of the cut will be true. The outside corner will have the very tip hidden by backsplash though, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkearns10 Posted October 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, drzaius said: Not sure I understand the question. If the straight edge is longer than the cut, then the end of the cut will be true. The outside corner will have the very tip hidden by backsplash though, right? Sorry man, I mixed up the corners. - Seems with some finessing and support the corners are routing ok. - My concern is, however, that after a few passes I've got some wavy peaks and valleys in my routing surface. - Is this the result of a non-vertically steady router? I basically set up a piece of stiff ply underneath my cutting area, set about 1/16" of an inch back to just accommodate the width of the bearing and to eat into the cut. Should I have a top straight edge guide in addition to this to prevent wavy inconsistencies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 31, 2018 Report Share Posted October 31, 2018 Hard to tell from a description but shaving a 1/64 or 1/32 might be less effort. It takes a well balanced stance and sharp focus to man-handle a big router with a long bit. I use a magnifying headset to make tiny adjustments to a straightedge. Plenty of light helps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.