Mark J Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Looking for some dust collection solutions at the grinder. I have a grinder with CBN wheels and sharpening produces a good bit of particulate steel debris. I was starting to ponder how to do DC, but was thinking maybe this problem has already been solved. My set up has two CBN wheels with the guards removed. I was thinking about a hose clamp to position either the shop vac hose or 4" DC hose near the bottom of the wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Yeah this screams fire risk to me. I think the best way to deal with it is let the stuff cool and vacuum it up after the fact. Or build a housing around it if possible to contain the mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Many knifemakers I've seen just position a bucket below the grinder to catch the majority of the particles. Some keep a little water in it. Steel particles are a bit heavier than wood dust, and don't tend to float around in the air as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 I put a wet paper towel under the wheel, and it catches a lot of it. I think most of us that use CBN wheels have the guards removed, mainly because the wheels don't fit in the typical grinder guard. I'm sure it's still nowhere near the detritus created with a friable wheel though. Even so, I'm going to go back to wet grinding, as soon as I see enough positive reviews of the Tormek diamond wheels. I can't dry grind in the houses I work on, so the grinder has to be kept outside. I'll never go back to friable wheels though, for woodworking edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted October 7, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: Yeah this screams fire risk to me. I think the best way to deal with it is let the stuff cool and vacuum it up after the fact. Or build a housing around it if possible to contain the mess. Oh yeah, there's that. Glad I asked. CBN's don't make much sparks, but there's some. So on to plan B, then. Damp paper towel is easy. Would there be such a thing as sticky paper? I am thinking of a smaller version of the sticky foot mats you see at construction sites. I was also thinking of a tray under the wheel, removable and easy to dump, could have a bit of water in the bottom. What about one of those strong magnets? I could put it in a small Ziplock and leave it under the wheel. Then periodically peel off the bag to discard the fillings. @Tom Kingthey do make a CBN wheel for the Tormek (e.g. Woodturning Wonders), but it is supposed to be used dry. Can the diamond wheels be immersed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Mouse trap pads? I wonder if a pan with grease would just end up making a mess inadvertently? Might catch better than water long term because it wn't evaporate but bump it and instant mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 Thin film of Vaseline? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Maybe one or two of those big Rockler silicone glue mats would contain it all and be able to be cleaned up whenever necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted October 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 Well here's what I've come up with so far. I decided to pursue the sticky door mat idea. I bought "Step N Peel" from Menards. It's $20 for 30 sheets. The sheets are 24 x 30 inches so that can be cut into 6 smaller pads (the material cuts easily). The product comes with 30 numbered tabs on one corner that have no adhesive, so you have a place to grab the expended sheet when pulling it off. Thing is it's impossible to pull off just one sheet without the tab. So,before cutting them out, I laboriously peeled back the edges of each sheet to put my own paper tabs in the corners of my smaller pads. Well, I dd 15 sheets before I got tired of it and decided to just try what I had. After all it might not work. Here's a couple of pictures showing the pads in place. I have to say it worked pretty well. Here's an after use picture. You can see the faint haze of metal particles. The metal particles appear well adhered to the pad, but after one use I think the pad may be saturated. There's not much stickiness left right under the wheel. And some particles fly out beyond the pad, so there's still that mess. Overall it's very much better than nothing, but the damp paper towel may be just a simpler solution. I'll keep goofing with this idea and see where it goes. One idea that crosses my mind is to just use the whole floor mat pad. Put the pad on a board, then place the grinder on the pad. The pad should be big enough to collect most of the debris. You would have to pick up the grinder every time you changed sheets, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 13, 2018 Report Share Posted October 13, 2018 How much space do you need under the wheel could you make a chute that goes back to a container and then just empty that? I know it's complicated to build but ..... it might be worth it? OR even get one of the slow and narrow DC shrouds and have it dump on a blast gate then just open the gate to empty it into a container? Now that I see a picture it's making a lot more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted October 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Don't need much space under the wheels or below the tool rest bar. I want to contain the dust and keep it from contaminanting my work area. The idea is to keep the sharpening station near the lathe for frequent tool sharpening, but the grinder is a lot more messy than I had given it credit for. After I go through these adhesive sheets I may try fashioning collection trays from aluminum pie pans. That would require eating some pies, but some sacrafices have to be made in the interest of woodworking science. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted October 14, 2018 Report Share Posted October 14, 2018 Some comes off all around. I'm sure there is a solution, but I'm going back to wet grinding, except in the metal shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Maybe something like this would help keep it contained. Maybe extend it around the sides? https://www.pennstateind.com/store/marlen-tip-14.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawDustB Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Maybe I'm missing something, but why not just put a box around the grinder, since this looks like a permanent setup? You could leave the front open, and enclose the sides, back, and top, leaving maybe 1" clearance from the wheels. I'm assuming you really only need access to the front portion of the wheel. If you're worried about fire risk, make it from sheet metal or just line the lower part of the inside with sheet metal. It would keep it all contained, and you could just vacuum it out periodically. It's probably not all that much work to build (you could try it with cardboard to see if it works) and it wouldn't require any ongoing effort. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I like the idea of building walls around the grinder. That could be easily done with cardboard and I don't see any real fire risk with CBN's. But it's looking like the magnet idea might have some merit. All I had in the way of rare earth magnets were 3 quarter size magnets. But I had to touch up one of my tools today so I put them into so some zip lock bags and replaced the sticky mat with the magnets. Here's a picture after sharpening the tool. Wasn't that much metal taken off, but you can see the dust sticking to the front and bag magnets. The side one didn't do much. There was surprisingly little dust in between the bags, but this was easy to sweep up with the magnets. Took them over to the garbage can and removed them easily from their bags whereupon the metal dust fell into the can. Re-used the bags. I am going to goof with this some more and see where it goes. Next time I may put all three magnets under to wheel. I will look for a 2 inch long bar. I would suggest freezer weight ziplocks, too. The magnets stick to each other and other things like the metal base of the grinder (fortunately the wheel is aluminum) and it takes a lot of pulling to get them apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 After a little research I decided to stick with the little magnets I have. The pulling force of these things seems to go as the volume. The little bars I saw had like ten pounds of pull which seemed like a lot for this application. Today I did try using a collection tray as well as one of the magnets. You might want to use something less valuable than this hand formed aluminum vessel with vintage patina, but the idea worked well. It gives better reach out in front of the wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 If the magnet is working, one of those magnet-bottom parts trays that mechanics use to hold loose nuts and bolts might work even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankstick Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Harbor Freight has the magnetic thingies for free with a purchase. I have one and got one for my son. Handy as a pocket on a tee shirt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mark J Posted September 16, 2019 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 I'm returning to this thread because there's been some further evolution. First the magnets in an aluminum pan idea worked well as long as I was using the Tormek jigs which left plenty of space under the open CBN wheels. They collected almost all, but not 100%, of the metal dust. Clean up is a little bit of a nuisance and really needs to done after each session. Can't remember if I explained this before, but the ziploc bag is essential. To clean the magnets open the bag over the trash. Dip a screwdriver in to retrieve the magnet. With your fingers pinched above the magnet squeege off the metal bits as you move the magnet up past your fingers. Then drop the magnet back in the bag. Like I said, works well. But whenever I sought help with sharpening lathe tools I realized the rest of world all have the Wolverine system so I decided I needed one, too. And turners are always one tool away from greatness. The Wolverine takes up most of the space under the wheels. I tried to work around this for a while, but the dust collection was definitely not as good. Then enter last month's American Woodturner Magazine. There's an article in the tips section where one of the members (Mitchell Friedman, to give him credit) had put together an attachment to collect dust at his grinder with PVC pipe. The Editor's note indicated the the procedure should be safe if the vacuum was dedicated to the task and did not contain wood dust, etc. The Editors also recommend grounding the PVC pipe. I have a clean dedicated vac, but am not planning to ground the PVC as I don't see what a static spark could ignite (and I'm not sure how to do it). It's 1 1/2" pipe. Two 60's, two 90's two 1' sections, a T and a plug as well as an adaptor to the vac pipe. Friction fit and held in place with gravity. I have used it to shape two new gouges, which is a lot of grinding, and refresh one gouge, as well. I looked into the vac and found quite a bit of metal in there, so I think it works at least as well as the magnets. Very good, but like 95%. Also after the test I decided to install a clean, new filter bag. I really don't believe it's a fire hazzard, but I can see that cleaning out the vacuum could get ugly. And by the way I figure to empty the bag when it's at 5%. No way am I going to be able handle 14 gallons of steel dust. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted September 16, 2019 Report Share Posted September 16, 2019 I wonder if an ash vacuum would be better/easier to empty. I imagine it will take you a while to fill up 14 gallons of steel dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankstick Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I just vacuum with a round nozzle after the particles have cooled...usually an hour or more when I do the whole shop. I don't vacuum right away after sharpening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 I'm giving up on dry grinding, and going back to a wet grinder, for this type of grinding. One like I want is not made, so I'm planning to cobble one together myself. I don't want to give up on the non-diameter changing advantage of the CBN wheels, so the plan is to go with wet diamond wheels. I had given up thinking about it for a while, but this weekend I saw (new to me) reversing servo motors for commercial sewing machines, which solves the previously very expensive variable speed reversing motor problem. The sewing machine servo motors are less than a couple of hundred dollars for a nice motor, and controls. There will have to be a belt drive to a spindle holding a couple of wheels. My sharpening sink is 92" long, so it can sit on that drainboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Beings that we are having grinder discussions. Low speed grinders show up a lot for sharpening tools. Is there a point to have a high speed grinder around if I'm never going to do metal work? Could i use the low speed grinder for other grinding tasks like sharpening my mower blade or taking a 1/4" off of a screw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted September 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 My answer is yes. In fact I'm not sure what a high speed grinder would be for. The 1750 RPM of a "low" speed is already fast and more than aggressive enough. Tom, I don't blame you one bit. It's the best dust containment system, and it's great to be able to flush the debris away. But wet grinding when I have to reshape a heavy metal tool just exceeds my patience. And faucet and sink are some distance away for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted September 17, 2019 Report Share Posted September 17, 2019 Low speed grinding with coated metallic wheels (almost) eliminates a huge safety hazard from the shop, too. A grinding wheel exploding in your face is rather unpleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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