ryandetzel Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 After reading and watching countless videos I think I've settled on this setup. Thoughts? Veritas MK II Honing Guide Norton Waterstone, Combination 4000/8000 Grit 8" Fine/Coarse with DuoSharp Plus Base The DuoSharp to flatten the 4/8k waterstones and the guide to assist me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have that guide - I like it. I wonder whether or not you'll need an intermediate grit, between the Duosharp 600 grit and 4000 stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have that guide - I like it. I wonder whether or not you'll need an intermediate grit, between the Duosharp 600 grit and 4000 stone. You wont need an intermediate grit between the diamons 600 and the 4k. I had a dia sharp fine that I used to jump straight to the 8k from. It took a little extra time but not much. Going to the 4k will be a very doable jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombuhl Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 The 4000 might be too fine for all but minor touch up. 1000 is more commonly used for general first step. Going from 1000 to 8000 for micro-bevel is not a problem at all. So 4000 is not really needed. Don't know if they make a 1000/8000 combo. In Shapton's I go from 1000 for micro-bevel to 16000 for micro-micro-bevel (some say tertiary bevel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandetzel Posted November 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 They make a 1000/8000(http://www.woodcraft...08000-Grit.aspx) so maybe that's a better choice? In most of the videos I've seen they use the 4k then the 8k with no mention of a 1k besides flattening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have to agree with not needing a 4000 grit stone. I hardly ever use my 4000 Shapton. I have the MKII and I find it somewhat of a hassle keeping enough even pressure on plane a chisel blade so it doesn't me move while sharpening. I have gone back to using little single wheel honing guide and on sometimes even free hand sharpen. My advice would be to save money the honing guide and put that money toward Shapton 1000 and 8000 grit stones. I think the Shapton's are far better stones then the Nortons. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschen Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I use 220 grit sandpaper to flatten my stones. If you're like me I'd save the $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have to agree with not needing a 4000 grit stone. I hardly ever use my 4000 Shapton. I have the MKII and I find it somewhat of a hassle keeping enough even pressure on plane a chisel blade so it doesn't me move while sharpening. I have gone back to using little single wheel honing guide and on sometimes even free hand sharpen. My advice would be to save money the honing guide and put that money toward Shapton 1000 and 8000 grit stones. I think the Shapton's are far better stones then the Nortons. James Actually this is what I would recommend too. Get a really good 1k stone and then a Shapton or Norton 8k. If you have the cash a diamond plate is WELL worth it for flattening, but sandpaper will work. The thing with diamond plates is fi you use them heavily on steel they will wear out, you need to not go to hard on them. How about this combo - James's recomendation: 1k Shapton Pro and 8k (or norton 4k/8k combo - a mid grit stone is nice for working backs, and the 4k and 8k Nortons while not as good as more expensive stone are pretty decent) - Duosharp coarse/extra-coarse - use one side for heavy steel removal and the other side ONLY for flattening stones. That way when the side used for steel wears out you still have side for flattening you stone, which if you reserve it for that should never wear out. I'm told you can wear out diamond stones very quickly if you use a lot of pressure working large areas of steel (e.g. backs) but if you don't use too heavy of a touch the side you use for steel shouldn't wear out for happen for a long long time either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWW Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Change that to 1K instead of 4K and that is the sharpening system I have been using for more than 5 years. The DMT stone can flatten your water stones as well as do heavier "grinding" to remove nicks and such on the blades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnell Hagen Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I would skip the Veritas guide and buy one of these (also available here) and make one of these instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandetzel Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 I would skip the Veritas guide and buy one of these (also available here) and make one of these instead. That looks interesting. I wonder if the $70 for the MKII is worth it though. It would take me probably 3 hours to make that jig and If I got an angle wrong or it wasn't perfectly square I could mess up my blades; no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 As others have said 1k stone is a better fit than a 4k, faster removal. I have the MKII and love it. I used to think my blades were sharp until I got this, then wow. The only chisel I have ever had an issue with it is my 1/8", it likes to move a little but Veritas says the jig is only good for chisels down to 1/4" anyway so it isn't the jig it's me pushing the jig . I have since gotten a lot better at freehand but can't come close to the results I get with my jig (and on my good set of chisels I will only use the jig) Ryan, I know what you mean about the cost of the jig but after making several jigs that hold the blade and slide over the stone (jig runs on the surface and bridges the stone) I have never gotten the results I do with this. I still use this method for my skew chisels but thats it. A sharp blade is everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnell Hagen Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 That looks interesting. I wonder if the $70 for the MKII is worth it though. It would take me probably 3 hours to make that jig and If I got an angle wrong or it wasn't perfectly square I could mess up my blades; no? If it took you three hours you would have paid yourself $20 an hour. Blade angles don't need to be perfect, as long as you are within +/- 3° you probably won't notice a difference. Repeatablity is far more important, if your 25° is actually 23° it doesn't matter as long as you can hit 23° quickly every time you hone. Perfectly square is the goal, but if it's off a little planes with lateral adjustability can compensate. I can't comment on the Mark II, as I've never used one, but the jig works so well I can't see how the Mark could improve on it. The jig is easy. You can build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandetzel Posted November 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 I could always resell the MKII...I doubt anyone would pay me back my labor to build that jig. ;-) I'll check it out today at the store and see if it's really something I want or not. I think I'm settled on the 1k/8k stone though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 You'll like the MK II. There really isn't a bad thing to say about it. I'm actually a fan of the guide/setup Darrel mentioned, the jig for setting the angle on that really only takes about 10 minutes to make - its just a series of stops so you can get repeatability with angles. But you can't go wrong with the MKII, it s very well designed, and it can also do skewed blades if/when you get them, and aren't inclined to sharpen them freehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekG Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I've got the mkII and recommend it. Like Chris said you can easily do skews. And you can get a camber add on for scrub planes/jointers if you want a little curve lovin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandetzel Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Would these stones let me sharpen knives too? What about router bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnell Hagen Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Knives can be sharpened on them, but I wouldn't. A sharpening iron is the tool for that job, it shapes the edge with a burnishing action more than removing material. HIgh carbon steel router bits can be sharpened with them, but the stones may be too unweildy for a satisfactory job. Carbide bits require a diamond hone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have coarse to fine pocket DMTs for my router bits. Super easy to do a quick touch up after use. It keeps everything razor sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Waite Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Lots of good advice here. I would get the 1000 and wait on the 4000 until I needed to flatten some chisel backs. I use the guide that Darnell suggested from Lie-Nielson, or anywhere as it seems those angle guides are all alike. I haven't made the jig yet but I want to. You can just measure the projection with a ruler until you get around to making the jig. Someday I'll get around to making the jig and maybe even inscribing the angle and projection on my irons like DC. A place I've found to have good prices ( they usually beat everyone else out by just a bit) have good service and fast delivery for me in So Cal is sharpeningsupplies.com. They probably don't have a presence in your state so you can save on taxes and free shipping over $99 is nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryandetzel Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Picked up this stuff last night but didn't have time to test it. I'm watching a bunch of videos today and tonight I'm going to try and sharpen my chisels. What's the best way to find the current angel or should I just pick a new one and go with that? I'm thinking 30 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 I would just do 30 degrees. There is a good chance that they are ground at 25 degrees so honing at 30 will give a nice secondary bevel. Also, sometimes it's nice to have chisels sharpened at different angles. smaller chisels are taking a lot more force at the edge since it is concentrated in a smaller area, so a 30 degree or greater angle is nice. It can be nice to keep 1 or more wider chisel (3/4", 1" or greater) sharpened at 25 degrees, since a lower angle requires less force to cut. This is nice fore paring and also since the force is spread out across a wider area you do not need the strength of the higher bevel angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnell Hagen Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Honing angles are a trade off between edge retention and ease of use. The lower the angle, the easier it is to use but the shorter the lifespan of the edge. Steel types come into play as well as intended use. I've used O1 steel chisels meant for light hand paring at 15°. An A2 steel tool doesn't like that fine of an edge, and any mallet work or prying will chip it almost instantly. +1 on what ChrisG just said about widths as well, wide chisels can take the same force at lower angles than narrow ones. So, a narrow A2 chisel used with a mallet needs a significantly higher angle than a wide O1 pushed by hand alone. 30° is a good plave to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.