collinb Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 One technique that has me curious is the capacity to get the desired 90 degrees when jointing by hand. A shooting plane seems the ideal solution as one has a corner for the plane to ride in and make the perfect cut. So it dawned on me ... why not two corners? Why not a long shooting board that is square on both sides so that the plane rest on two corners and create the perfect edge? No chatter issues. Fast. Simple construction. Could be built to multiple lengths. Accommodates varying thickness of woods. Any company make one? Or make one yourself? (pic: orange is wood being planed, brown is shooting board x 2, clear is plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wright Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 It is an interesting idea but seams like it would be more work then just normally jointing it. I am just thinking of setup time would be a little long as every board would be slightly different thickness. I could be way off though. Sounds like a fun experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post G S Haydon Posted May 10, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Sounds brutal Colin but from my perspective it's a solution in search of a problem. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxerjoe04 Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Don't see that working out too well, different thicknesses and lengths, makes my head hurt thinking how getting that to work every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Well, the problem as I see it is to improve on the shooting board with a channel. I am going to try it with common thicknesses and see what happens. Might take some engineering feats to get it done right Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 14 minutes ago, collinb said: Well, the problem as I see it is to improve on the shooting board with a channel. It's only been like four or eight hundred years that the shooting board has been around and no one else has thought of this. The reason? They practiced jointing edges free hand, and who'da thunk it?...they learned. Not trying to poop on your little invention there, but it's the long way home with the added drawback of never learning a cornerstone technique. It's like using a fence on your plane...helps you today, but hurts you in the long run. Take your lumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 Luddite Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, collinb said: Luddite No. Pragmatist. Realist. Atheist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 If this made shooting better, I think the brain trust at Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen would have already brought to market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3nry Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Woodenskye said: If this made shooting better, I think the brain trust at Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen would have already brought to market. Essentially they already have: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41716&cat=1,41182 But as Eric said, it's essentially just "training-wheels" until you can do it freehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 This is only as reliable as your ability to square the iron to the sole anyway. I realize it is not that difficult, but the idea is that you cannot eliminate variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 So, what you drew there is a plane that has an edge fence on both sides, not a shooting board. Here's why it won't work. A ) Most people with a little skill acquired don't even need one fence. B ) One fence is training wheels and here's the real kicker C ) If you ran the two fences tight the plane would drag as soon as you hit a small variation in thickness, and if you ran them loose it's no different than only having one fence. D ) too long to set up for an already easy task to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted May 10, 2016 Report Share Posted May 10, 2016 You often see similar jigs being made on a very small scale. Harpsichord makers would use such a jig to plane all of the jacks to a uniform dimension. But those are no bigger than Popsicle sticks. One reason you don't see old guys fussing so much about jointing at a perfect 90 is that it isn't strictly necessary. If you're fixing to edge glue two boards, you clamp them together and match plane them. Any error cancels itself out. Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Harvey Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 It would probably be just as easy to clamp a fence to the plane for the last few passes. Your jig has to clamp the stock somehow and a long jig will move with moisture changes. I did something like this on a small scale to flatten and thickness spline material. See Secret Weapon #2 and #3 in https://wb8nbs.wordpress.com/2014/09/02/the-eleven-grooved-box-tools-update/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Kc8tka Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 14 hours ago, Eric. said: It's only been like four or eight hundred years that the shooting board has been around and no one else has thought of this. The reason? They practiced jointing edges free hand, and who'da thunk it?...they learned. Not trying to poop on your little invention there, but it's the long way home with the added drawback of never learning a cornerstone technique. It's like using a fence on your plane...helps you today, but hurts you in the long run. Take your lumps. " the added drawback of never learning a cornerstone technique" I'm trying to figure out if you're just being a purist here or if something else is intended. I usually question methods but don't generally throw them out. Skills exist because they have a place. Still, some techniques deserve to away pass over time. If the free-hand manual method is *so* good why are there electric jointers? Convenience, speed, and certain aspects of accuracy. IOW, they're *better* for the job. The manual technique has its place, of course. We all know that. But to make it, at least this is how I read your statement, a piece of core curriculum to woodworking seems a bit of a stretch. Of course I could be wrong. Perhaps every woodworker should be required to successfully joint two boards manually before adopting the moniker "woodworker." There is no "woodworker" certification. 14 hours ago, Eric. said: ... Atheist. I am curious how your metaphysic is meaningful here. But that's probably best an off-line discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, collinb said: " the added drawback of never learning a cornerstone technique" I'm trying to figure out if you're just being a purist here or if something else is intended. I usually question methods but don't generally throw them out. Skills exist because they have a place. Still, some techniques deserve to away pass over time. If the free-hand manual method is *so* good why are there electric jointers? Convenience, speed, and certain aspects of accuracy. IOW, they're *better* for the job. The manual technique has its place, of course. We all know that. But to make it, at least this is how I read your statement, a piece of core curriculum to woodworking seems a bit of a stretch. Of course I could be wrong. Perhaps every woodworker should be required to successfully joint two boards manually before adopting the moniker "woodworker." There is no "woodworker" certification. You're confusing analogies. Yes jointers were invented for convenience, speed, accuracy. So buy a jointer. But if you want to use a hand plane, learn to use the hand plane. Jointing a square edge is woodworking 101, and while you could probably woodwork your entire life without knowing how to do it, you're doing yourself a disservice by not learning. Same as never learning how to chisel out a mortise or hand cutting dovetails. If your argument is that there are machines that can do this work for you without putting in the time to develop the skills to do it by hand...fine, I agree. That's where the discussion ends though, sorry. If you're gonna use hand tools, then use them...the way they were intended to be used and HAVE been used...for centuries. Good luck with reinventing that wheel. I don't have time for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Eric. said: I don't have time for this. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 Collin, a hand plane was designed for jointing an edge flat to a face. Its sole is flat and registers the flat surface as it removes material. If you start on an edge that is uneven it will remove high spots until you are finally taking a full shaving. The difference between a power jointer and a hand plane is with the latter you feel the wood...you see the wood as its removed and you interact more intimately with the process. And as you get better at this process your results are very good. Theres a reward for using a hand tool to do this. What you propose takes the reward out of the process and at that point you might as well use a power tool. Hand planing an edge free hand without training wheels is part of the joy of using a hand plane. Its kinda like someone who likes to jog to work in the morning. Sure he can take the bus but he misses smelling the morning dew and birds chirping. He doesn't want a skateboard either even though "it works"...he likes jogging because any crutch or alternative method means he will miss something along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 I think I am confused about what you are explaining. Is it just a shooting board with a plane that rides in a channel? Mine does: But you want the channel on both sides? is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgaron Posted May 11, 2016 Report Share Posted May 11, 2016 The shoulder you illustrate, as is cut in a shooting board while using it, couldn't develop in use, as the width of the cut would change depending on the board being clamped in the setup. That and by the time you clamped it up and set it in your bench vise or what have you, you'd already be done if you just freehanded it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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