G S Haydon Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Just wanted feedback if possible from those who use a Bailey or Bedrock type plane. I dipped my toe into the world of the Bedrock by purchasing a Clifton #5 via ebay for about £75 > $115 less than new. I must say I'm not feeling it and wanted to hear some feedback from others. I have spoken with my UK supplier who deals in new clifton planes (he does not sell junk) and it seems I bought and early dog from when the company was having issues. The images of the new tools seem to be in stark contrast to what I have, which is good. My main issue on the basis all the QC issues have been resolved is how close the tote is to the lateral lever. I have normal size hands and I like to adjust on the fly when required. The Clifton is so tight I can barely get my little finger in there to move the lever, the photo of the new one looks like there is more space. I looked at the LN and that looks really really tight. Below are some photos of the various. My Record - Loads of room The LN - CRAZY TIGHT http://www.lie-nielsen.com/standard-bench-planes/no.-4-smooth-plane/ The present day Clifton & WoodRiver/Quangsheng UK/US The WoodRiver looks like the best bet from where I'm sat if I want easy access to the lateral lever much like the Record. Is this one area where the Chinese changed from their "homage" to the LN product? Also for me the weight of these things is hugely overplayed. Clifton is supposed to be the heaviest brute out there and FWIW I hardly noticed it, it just felt robust. The Bedrock adjustment, well, I could take or leave it really. How many times do we really need to adjust the mouth and how many seconds does it really shave off when we do, sixty seconds or so? A more secure bedding? Why do I need that? A smoother will be taking super fine shavings so not much stress there. The plane that takes the most brute force is a jack, easy way to do that is go wooden :-). So has it been night and day when you moved to a Bedrock, anything you would like to change? Did it do things a Bailey would not do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 With the plane I bought from your recommendation, it closely resembles your Record plane pictured. The space between the tote and lateral adjuster is almost identical from what I can tell. But, to be honest, I rarely use that lateral adjuster. I hone the blade, slap it back into the plane, extend it so a lot is showing, adjust as close to square as my eye can see. I have been pretty lucky and my eyes have been my friend. But, if I have to make a slight adjustment more typically its one quick move to one side or the other and I'm done until next hone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Melton Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 The lateral adjuster on the bailey #4 I have just about scrapes the tote. The #3 I have actually has a bit more space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I do like the Bedrock design but I have more planes that don't have it than that do, it is nice to be able to quickly adjust the mouth opening for controlling tear out. I can tell a bit of a difference on the quality between my 604 compaired to my #4 and I'm sure it's a combination of the greater surface contact between the plane and the frog as well as the blade to the frog. With that being said being able to adjust on the fly is far more important than the Bedrock design. I have several Stanley's and a couple Bedrocks from pre WW2 and a couple Stanley's from the late 1800s and all of them have decent clearance for my hand, and I have medium to large hands. I do prefer to make my own totes for my planes, there are some that I still need to do, it's nice because then you can make it fit your hand perfect and you could make the clearance issue go away. I do have a WR #5 and I really like it, I'd put it up against my LN any day with the exception of the iron which I replaced with a Hock and put a 20degree back bevel on the original for when I have tricky grain-works great. The WR 's that are being shipped out now have a tote design is a little different, the shaping and angle is altered a tad, Rob Cosman was in charge of this, and even more impressive is that the slack is taken out of the blade adjustment, now it's only supposed to have about 1/4 turn. Keep in mind that unless you go to the store and check it out yourself, which in the UK I don't know if it's an option, getting these upgrades are by chance because of what stores still have in stock, but even without them they have great planes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Graham, get yourself some nice low angle planes bud. Easy to adjust the mouth, blade adjustments are simple, plenty of room for your hand. Added bonus is the convenient blade angle adjustment.I don't get behind the idea of the plane needs to be heavy to get the job done.I wish you were closer, we'd have some low angle fun!Low Angle rant over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Melton Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I don't want to Jack Graham's thread, but I've had a low angle jack in and out of my shopping cart like 6 times. I always wonder just how much use I would get out of it. Would you get a low angle jack or smoother first? Anything you struggle with using low angle? So yeah, Mel you should probably start a "Dr StangeAngle or How I stopped Worrying and Learned to Love Low Angle" thread. I'll owe you a beer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 So yeah, Mel you should probably start a "Dr StangeAngle or How I stopped Worrying and Learned to Love Low Angle" thread. I'll owe you a beer. About that beer Chuck, any time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I don't own any Bedrocks. Once I set the frog where I want it, it doesn't get moved again. Each plane has its own use, so there is no need to fiddle with them once fine tuned for that useage. My lateral adjuster is a 4 oz. ball peen hammer. A few tests after honing, and it doesn't get fooled with until next honing. I wouldn't really care if the lateral adjuster is on there or not. It stays in the middle all the time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 As for the LA, can you adjust on the go? I have never actually held one but from the looks of it it seems like it would be difficult. Personally I have had great success with back bevels, yes if you change your mind about the degree you have more stock to remove but once you figure it out you are good to go. I have a different iron for my smothers and jointer hat get swapped out somewhat frequently, usually it's the original thinner blade and this is where the Bedrock design is nice for adjusting the mouth opening. It's great that there is both styles of planes because we aren't all the same, I do love my bevel down planes and it seems like Mel likes his served bevel up:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Low angle mouth opening and blade depth can be adjusted very easily. Generally, I take a light pass with a fairly open mouth and adjust my depth of cut depending on the wood I'm planing. Then I close the mouth as much as possible still allowing for the shaving to pass. Here is a picture of consecutive passes on hard maple. No tools were needed for adjustment, the blade stayed in. Took maybe a few seconds for each adjustment. Easy to see how versatile a low angle plane can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I don't get behind the idea of the plane needs to be heavy to get the job done. You have me laughing Mel! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 You have me laughing Mel! Go play with your #8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Go play with your #8 24" of pure sexx I believe haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Go play with your #8 24" of pure sexx I believe haha you 2 should get a room 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I placed my LN and Woodriver smoother side by side. The woodriver sole is slightly longer, and its smaller less radically curved tote is set back, providing more clearance between tote and lateral knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Works wonderfully on the living room carpet as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Freddie, thank you so much! From that one photo I now know I would never want an LN #4! Only through force of habit and what I'm used too though, no because it's bad. It's interesting to me at least thais difference is not picked up by others as I belive it is a contraversial subject to some just how close the LN & WR are. For me personally the tote on the WR looks better thought out. Freddie, could I use that image of the totes, it's cool if you don't want me too :-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 That's a fifty split for me. I like a bigger tote. Does anyone make a bigger tote that is also well spaced or can we not have our cake and eat it too? I am frustrated by my Bailey 4 so much that I have seriously considered setting my 5 up as a smoother, convention be hanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hang it baby :-). You might like a 4 1/2 C or even as mell has mentioned in his thread a LAJ. The new stanley's complaint among its users seems to be a big rear tote perhaps that could be the one for you? No frog to boot, adjustable mouth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Use the pic Graham, no problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Heather taking some see through shavings this morning. That's my girl!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I can't say that I've noticed that the tote on my LN#4 was really close to the lateral adjustment until you pointed it out Graham. It's made me look at all my bench planes In use, like many of the guys, it's really a case of set and forget with the lateral adjustment. I've not had cause to adjust the throat either as I leave it to take gossamer like shavings of between 1 and 3 thousands. But having said that the shape of the top of the tote does not appear to hinder adjustment and the lever protrudes well beyond the blade. I have a bevel up LV smoother that I have set for a little thicker shavings. And another 2 Stanley #4s (one ancient - I think it may have been used on the scaffolding on stonehenge ) for other work again with different settings. The Stanley #5 jack for heavier work with a slight radius on the main blade. Here is my LN#4 Not much room between that tote and the lateral adjust but still plenty of room to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 My main issue on the basis all the QC issues have been resolved is how close the tote is to the lateral lever. I have normal size hands and I like to adjust on the fly when required. The Clifton is so tight I can barely get my little finger in there to move the lever, the photo of the new one looks like there is more space. I looked at the LN and that looks really really tight. Below are some photos of the various. Hi Graham If there is too little hand room, swap the handle for one that is smaller, such as a #3. Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Freddie, thank for that :-), she can take a fine shaving! Terry, thanks for taking the time also and it is as I thought, very close! Even though we don't perhaps use it much, when I do I want it as easy to adjust as my current plane. Derek, a fine point, sadly we brits have to pay a real premium for our LN, the though of spening more makes me tremble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Graham, you're right about the money spent on these tools. I always thought i could never have them. But the more I got into hand tools, I wanted the nice tools. I take excellent care of them, and I feel an extra sense of pride when using them. My woodriver smoother with a properly honed blades takes the same shaving as my other planes, so what it all comes down to is are we crazy enough to spend more money? Yes we are! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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