Pondering bench design

[SawDustB]

Thanks for the responses. I have no info on the type of birch, the ad simply says birch lumber dried indoors for 6 years. There's a picture, but pretty low resolution and just looks like rough boards. I'm even guessing at the 4/4, mainly because they look too thin to be 8/4. I don't disagree that it'll be a bit masochistic to use 4/4... But it seems like thicker wood is a bit harder to come by around here, unless I just bite the bullet and pay top dollar through the hardwood dealer. And I really want to put Glue-bo in my project journal thread title .

I'm building a toy box out of birch right now. I think that wood is yellow birch, and it's from the hardwood dealer. It's softer than hard maple, but definitely harder than alder or "soft" hardwoods. I hadn't thought about it being unstable, though. That could be a pain in the butt for a bench.

There's an alternative source I may check out, but I've had to wait for the snow to melt and things to dry so he could get to his piles of wood. I think the options there were beech, oak, or maple.

[AceHoleInOne]

6 minutes ago, Brendon_t said:

The above link is dead.

I've heard you speak of Bob before.  Maybe I just had a softer run of wood. I just went out and was able to score the last remaining board with my thumb nail.  Definately not hard like hard maple

Think I have the link fixed. You have strong thumb nails. 

 

-Ace-

[Eric.]

20 minutes ago, Brendon_t said:

The above link is dead.

I've heard you speak of Bob before.  Maybe I just had a softer run of wood. I just went out and was able to score the last remaining board with my thumb nail.  Definately not hard like hard maple

Probably not yellow birch then.  It's tough to tell the difference between most of the sub-species because the sapwood is so similar looking among them.  You may have gray or Alaska or river birch.

[Dknapp34]

I used 4/4 for the top of my bench.  Eric is right, it's not impossible, but it is a lot more work.  That said, I was in the same boat as you where cost was a big factor and I got my hands on a lot of 4/4 hickory for really cheap, so I went for it.  As long as you have time and the price is right, I say go for the 4/4.  One thing to think about though is how flat the wood is.  If you have to do a lot of milling to get the boards flat, you're going to lose a lot of thickness from already thin boards, which means even more work.  If the birch looks pretty wonky, I would stay away and try to find something else.   

[gee-dub]

On 1/10/2016 at 5:27 PM, SawDustB said:

Thanks, Eric, I was wondering for a second there if I was missing something. Good point about the top, I was thinking about it in terms of how thick do I really need, but I can see the extra thickness would help weight. Construction lumber for the base is not my first choice, so I'll have to use a lot of it... If I can get something else reasonably, I'll use it.

I tried some KD fir that was stickered for a couple months in my shop.  I still had so much waste product that I could have bought properly prepared and stored poplar at the lumber yard and been about even.  The material alos continued to move and shrink and caused some issues that I had to stop and deal with.  My next bench I went with poplar which is inexpensive and has served quite well.  Just my experience.

 

P.s. you can always build a ballast into the base and add scrap iron or even dry redi-crete (properly sealed up in plastic) for weight.  I did this in a DP base to add stability:

[Chet]

That is a nice stack of wood Ace.

[SawDustB]

Now that I'm free of my garage shop reorganization, and a couple of projects that I was doing for my wife, I'm thinking about the workbench again. This is where I had gotten to with the previous thoughts about the bench. The overall dimensions are 5 feet long, with a 1 foot overhang on the right. I'm planning on a leg vise as shown, although I may still go with the criss cross mechanism instead of the lower guide. I'd love to go with all Bench crafted hardware, but in Canada that will be well over $1000 after tax. I'm planning on a wagon vise as well, although that may get scrapped in favor of the Veritas inset vise for cheapness and simplicity. I have decided on square dogs for the tail vise.

The planned height of the bench is around 36 inches, to be just below the height of my table saw (at 37 inches). That seems to me like a comfortable height to work at. The top will be made with two slabs at 11 inches or so each, with about a 1.75 inch gap. I'm intending to have a gap stop as most designs do. I may still pick up a copy of the Bench crafted plans to have a reference to go from.

My current thoughts on material are to use 4/4 hard maple for the top, since it's cheaper, and go with 8/4 maple for the legs to minimize my glue ups. Since I'm buying from the dealer, I could also go with ash, birch, beech, or a couple of other options for about the same price.

[wtnhighlander]

If you have a seperate assembly table, five feet of bench is a reasonable size, most of the time. If you use your bench for assembly, you may find five feet a bit crowded for larger casework pieces.

[SawDustB]

If you have a seperate assembly table, five feet of bench is a reasonable size, most of the time. If you use your bench for assembly, you may find five feet a bit crowded for larger casework pieces.

At the moment, my table saw usually ends up being my assembly table. The 5 foot length is based on my available space, otherwise I'd go 7-8 feet. I might be able to squeeze up to 6 feet, but I'm worried it'll mean I have no room to work around it.

[gee-dub]

On 1/10/2016 at 5:27 PM, SawDustB said:

Thanks, Eric, I was wondering for a second there if I was missing something. Good point about the top, I was thinking about it in terms of how thick do I really need, but I can see the extra thickness would help weight. Construction lumber for the base is not my first choice, so I'll have to use a lot of it... If I can get something else reasonably, I'll use it.

I built a bench using lumber taken from 2 x 12 doug fir which I stickered in my shop for a couple of months to acclimate.  The waste factor was so great that I cold have used properly prepared poplar from a yard and saved money.  When I built the bench I am using now I went with poplar; it was cheaper than the construction lumber method.

The latest bench is smaller than its predecessor so I get the smaller bench and wanting mass thing.  a bench is a very personal thing and we build them for different reasons.  Mine is 4 layers of 3/4" MDF wrapped in maple for the skirts.  I use a field of dog holes as opposed to the long row along the front.

Someone else may use 4" of hard maple, a split top, a deadman and drill a hole for a hold down as he sees the need.  When it comes to benches there is no right or wrong (within reason).  I will guarantee you however that someone will look at my bench or your bench or John Doe's bench and wonder how we get anything done on them

[xxdabroxx]

I still haven't completed my doug fir bench, it's sitting on saw horses but it has stayed pretty flat.  It could use a flattening, but it's not far enough out that I plan on messing it any time soon.  It's been together for over a year now at least.  It's taken some dents, dings, and stains, but it seems to be holding up fine.  One of these days I'll get it's legs under it with it's BC leg vise and quick release tail vise.  It's built quite a few things as is though. 

[SawDustB]

Thanks for the replies. One thing I am set on is using properly dried lumber rather than construction lumber. I may even splurge and get the lumber place to do some of the milling to s2s, since I don't have a jointer. An advantage of having a slightly smaller bench is i just don't need as much wood.

I suspect that if I started the bench and didn't just push through, it'd end up half done for years. I'm sure it still works great like that, but the vises and work holding is what I'm most excited about.

[xxdabroxx]

5 hours ago, SawDustB said:

Thanks for the replies. One thing I am set on is using properly dried lumber rather than construction lumber. I may even splurge and get the lumber place to do some of the milling to s2s, since I don't have a jointer. An advantage of having a slightly smaller bench is i just don't need as much wood.

I suspect that if I started the bench and didn't just push through, it'd end up half done for years. I'm sure it still works great like that, but the vises and work holding is what I'm most excited about.

No way would I want to use green lumber, I bought kiln dried stuff.  Definitely swing for the better lumber if you can, I started mine while being unemployed and having a ton of extra time, so it kinda made sense at the time.  I really want to use my vises, but just haven't taken the time to finish them yet.  I can't wait to spin my leg vise for the first time. 

Getting pre milled lumber would be a benefit if you don't have a jointer, doing it all the neanderthal way was very tiring and time consuming. 

[Doomwolf]

I've made a couple of projects from white ash, and find it works well. Something go keep in mind if it's noticeably cheaper than maple. Also supposed to be very shock resistant if you plan on doing a lot of heavy mortising or similar.

[SawDustB]

I've made a couple of projects from white ash, and find it works well. Something go keep in mind if it's noticeably cheaper than maple. Also supposed to be very shock resistant if you plan on doing a lot of heavy mortising or similar.

That's good to know. Right now I'm leaning towards going all maple, just because i like the look of it. If I laminate from 4/4 for the top, the cost difference between it and ash is almost a wash.i need to take a trip over this weekend to see what they've got in different widths and lengths. Ideally I'd be buying 11 foot long 9-10 or 5 inch widths.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[KenMasco]

I built my Roubo bench with a 3" thick Ash top and Doug fir 4x8 stretchers and Doug Fit 5x5 legs.  It's 23" wide and 87" long with leftover Hickory floor boards for a shelf.  It is very heavy, doesn't move at all.  I used the timbers because I had them.  If I ever build another one I think I would do it the same way

[Robby W]

I built my bench top from vertical grain Douglas fir about thirty years ago. It ended up about 2 3/4" thick and has served me well, but I have a couple of gripes. First, it splinters along the edge as it gets older. Second, it dents too easily. The top is pretty chewed up now. I used hard maple for the trestle base and it is still sound. It was easy to disassemble and move too.

I am getting ready to build a new bench in the near future and will be using hard maple for it. I looked around and found rough, kiln dried 8/4 hard maple for about $3.50/bf which is cheap for around here. It will cost me less than $400 for the lumber for a 4" thick top 24" wide, 6 1/2' long, and a heavy trestle base. This will likely be the last bench I build, so I want to do it right.

[SawDustB]

I appreciate the replies. I bought the first few hardware components (bench bolts and parts for the wagon vise) today, and I'm hoping to go pick up wood this weekend. I need to see what they have available, but I may end up just going and getting 8/4 stock for all of it since the 4/4 cheaper stuff I was planning on using was all the wrong lengths and widths for my dimensions. I did look over the oak and ash, since they're a bit cheaper here for 8/4, but I don't think I'd enjoy it as much. For other inexpensive (relatively) and in stock at my dealer, I'm basically down to hard maple or yellow birch for the majority of it, with something else for the vise chop and end cap.

 

I'm thinking I'll use the same screw again on the leg vise, but buy the criss cross solo to hold the chop parallel. The wagon vise will be a home-built affair, using the screw and UHMW runners.

 

Vise screw:

 

Once I get the wood and progress into building I'll start a journal for it. Stay tuned...

[SawDustB]

OK, one last question before I go get my wood (likely end of the week, since it's raining the next few days). I'm settled on maple for the primary wood, but I'd like to use something else for the wagon vise end cap and the leg vise chop. I have a few options based on what my dealer can get in 12/4:

• Cherry: would be nice, although it's actually the priciest option at $15/bf. Still, it seems like a much more subtle contrast.
• Walnut: surprisingly slightly cheaper than the cherry  ($14/bf), but I'm not sold that I want that particular combination. My dealer also doesn't have a lot of inventory.
• African Mahogany: ($11/bf) I actually like the look of this combination, and it's more reasonable, but how hard is it to work? I'm leaning toward this option right now, but if it'll be awful with hand tools I may go for the cherry.

There's also some other options, that I've ruled out:

• Ash or Oak (white and red): I don't like it with maple because of the open pores
• Birch: boring, no contrast
• South American Mahogany: the stock there didn't look great, and it was more expensive than anything else.

The other obvious option would be to look at laminating to make up the thickness, but I'm assuming that's a bad idea.

Does anyone have any suggestions or feedback for me?

I may also play around with a couple of the maple parts on the front and using figured maple for the visible side, since it isn't that much of a premium for the couple of sticks I'll need. I could always go curly maple on the chop and end cap since that is available in 12/4, but that seems too subtle for me.

Thanks!

[..Kev]

My current one is walnut, and I like it.  The last version of it was Sapele, and I liked that too.

African mahogany would be fine, I don't see any issues with that at all.  I laminated and didn't have any issues with that either.

[Eric.]

I'd say walnut or cherry...keep it domestic.  It's not really something you should be asking us for opinions on since it's 100% a question of personal taste.

[SawDustB]

 

My current one is walnut, and I like it.  The last version of it was Sapele, and I liked that too.

African mahogany would be fine, I don't see any issues with that at all.  I laminated and didn't have any issues with that either.

Good to know, thanks. I would have considered Sapele, but no 12/4. If laminating isn't an issue, I may review some of the 8/4 options too.

 

I'd say walnut or cherry...keep it domestic.  It's not really something you should be asking us for opinions on since it's 100% a question of personal taste.

Totally right that's it's personal taste... I'm just looking for if anyone is going to tell me that one of these is an awful idea for some reason or another (especially where I expect to do a good portion of this with hand tools). Thanks for the vote. 

[estesbubba]

Like Eric said it's personal taste and do want you want. Since my BC knobs are Dymondwood (cocobolo look-alike) with the M hardware, I wanted them to stand out and went with a hard maple chop and end cap. 

[Eric.]

Mine is a hodgepodge of species because I built with what I had on hand at the time.  I built my bench before I started getting my lumber "discount" so I was pinching my wood pennies like the rest of you poor bastards have to do out there in the real world.

My primary species was red maple (soft maple, Janka similar to cherry or walnut).  I used walnut for the end cap, deadman runner, and the leg vise brackets, sapele for the dog strip, curly maple for the front laminate (which is also red maple), and hard maple for the chop.

If I ever build another bench, which is unlikely but always possible, I will build the entire thing out of hard maple, aside from possibly adding a walnut end cap...not even sure about that.  I'll admit it's really hard to resist showing off those condor tails.

The more benches I see with odd arrangements of contrasting species...the less I like them.  I've seen a few Roubos that I couldn't classify any other way but simply "butt ugly."  Which is a shame because they're such cool benches.  But if you take a gamble with weird species pairings or try too hard to be clever...there's a good chance it'll blow up in your face.

[SawDustB]

Mine is a hodgepodge of species because I built with what I had on hand at the time.  I built my bench before I started getting my lumber "discount" so I was pinching my wood pennies like the rest of you poor bastards have to do out there in the real world.

My primary species was red maple (soft maple, Janka similar to cherry or walnut).  I used walnut for the end cap, deadman runner, and the leg vise brackets, sapele for the dog strip, curly maple for the front laminate (which is also red maple), and hard maple for the chop.

If I ever build another bench, which is unlikely but always possible, I will build the entire thing out of hard maple, aside from possibly adding a walnut end cap...not even sure about that.  I'll admit it's really hard to resist showing off those condor tails.

The more benches I see with odd arrangements of contrasting species...the less I like them.  I've seen a few Roubos that I couldn't classify any other way but simply "butt ugly."  Which is a shame because they're such cool benches.  But if you take a gamble with weird species pairings or try too hard to be clever...there's a good chance it'll blow up in your face.

The one nice thing about not having much of a wood stash is I have to buy the material, so at least i get to choose it. You're right about the ugly Roubo benches, though. There's a lot of beautiful benches around but there's also others with questionable design decisions. I'll try not to offend anyone's sensibilities