Pondering bench design

[estesbubba]

I believe if you're building a new bench you want the solo (I would double-check with BC). I don't need a lot of travel for the crisscross mortise if hogging out using a forstner bit. 

[SawDustB]

 

I believe if you're building a new bench you want the solo (I would double-check with BC). I don't need a lot of travel for the crisscross mortise if hogging out using a forstner bit. 

Thanks Mike, that is what it said on the BC site. The main reason seems to be that the holes for the pins need to be drilled dead straight, which requires putting both the leg and chop on a drill press. My concern is that the holes are going to have to pass through the 5-6" leg and chop. Maybe it'll be fine to start the hole on the drill press with my 2" of travel and finish by hand to get all the way through. The important part, as I understand it, is that the holes are straight and square to the leg/chop so that the mechanism will be too.

I'm not too worried about making the mortises, since I can do that either with the drill press, a plunge router, or some combination.

[SawDustB]

After looking over the instructions for the criss cross solo and retro, the solo looks a lot easier to install, with the only caveat being that it needs well drilled holes for the pivot pins. Worst case, I can take it into work and use the large drill press there. The retro has a more complicated mortise, and tapped holes, and just generally a lot more steps. And it costs more. The only thing it really had going for it is that I could pick it up sooner, but realistically I'm not going to be dealing with leg vises at all for at least a month or two - I don't expect this to be a quick build.

[Coop]

I've never seen a woodworking bench that I didn't like!

[wtnhighlander]

Just to influence your opinion, the cherry will darken over time, whereas the walnut will lighten. Personally, for a workbench, I would consider cost & utility over appearance. Just don't use red oak. While it is a nice hard domestic species, I think the open pores are not a great feature in a bench.

Of the species you listed, I would probably choose the African Mahogany.

[SawDustB]

I went through an exercise of trying to figure out what wood to buy, and how much it was going to weigh, what it'll cost, etc. As it turns out, using 8/4 is going to essentially be a wash when it comes to cost (<$40 difference) so 8/4 it is. Because of the premium on 12/4, it makes sense to use it for the end cap but not for the vise chop, which I'm thinking I may laminate out of 4/4 and 8/4. I'm planning to get wood today, provided I can work it in around picking up the kids later.

 

I also realized my design needs to change a bit. The original drawing I showed had only a 12 inch overhang on the right hand side, but that would limit the travel of my wagon vise to at best around 6 inches, and at worst maybe only 3-4. It would also require either cutting the vise screw or burying 6 inches of it into the bench top. I read through some discussion about the best way to shorten a bench (see here: http://benchcrafted.blogspot.ca/2014/09/how-to-shorten-split-top-roubo.html) and I think that I'm going to leave the back legs where they were, and only move the front right. Here's what that looks like:

I still might consider moving the front left leg over to the left a little to increase the distance between the legs, but I figure I could only go at the very most 4 inches (vise edge even with the bench edge) but I would probably only go 2 inches to leave clearance beside the vise. Since I've never used a leg vise, do you find you need room on the left hand side a lot for it? I'm going to have the parking spot for my table saw on that side of the bench, so I can easily move it (and will it I'm using the saw) but it would be nice to be able to do some hand work without needing to.

[Eric.]

I may have already made this comment, but in the spirit of humanitarianism, I'll try again...

Are you sure there's no way around building a short bench?  Move some stuff around in the garage.  Try again.  Do whatever you can to fit a full size bench in there.  Not only do you need all the bench you can get...it just looks better.  No offense, but that offset design just looks...not good.

Think long term.  This is the last bench you'll need to build if you do it right.  I guarantee I could find a way to fit a standard size bench in your space.  Put the Orgo Man bat signal up or something.  He could do it too.  Guaranteed.

 

 

 

[SawDustB]

55 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I may have already made this comment, but in the spirit of humanitarianism, I'll try again...

Are you sure there's no way around building a short bench?  Move some stuff around in the garage.  Try again.  Do whatever you can to fit a full size bench in there.  Not only do you need all the bench you can get...it just looks better.  No offense, but that offset design just looks...not good.

Think long term.  This is the last bench you'll need to build if you do it right.  I guarantee I could find a way to fit a standard size bench in your space.  Put the Orgo Man bat signal up or something.  He could do it too.  Guaranteed.

 

 

Unfortunately, I just have a small, shared space for woodworking. I've already kicked as many things out of the space as I can, but it's a single garage at a bit under 10'x20' that has the main door, two other doors, a hose reel, the electrical panel... and a bunch of other stuff I can't get rid of. It's the only practical place for a snowblower, snow tires, shovels, garden tools, kids outside toys, etc. I could make room for a bigger bench along the back wall if I tossed some of the shelving, but I can pretty much guarantee I would never be able to get to it due to crap being piled in front. 

The space I've selected for the bench is along the outside wall which has one of the doors, but it also has two windows and I should be able to always use it. I could MAYBE stretch the bench out closer to 6', but it would be pretty tight. A full size Roubo is pretty much out of the question unless I could dedicate the garage for woodworking, but that isn't going to happen. Believe me, I'd love to do that, but my property's small enough there isn't a great spot to put another shed or anything either.

The one possibility that would eliminate the angled stretcher would be to grow the bench by 4-6 inches, and maybe lop 2 inches off the left. I only need 18 inches overhang, and I was already planning for 12. Maybe that's better anyway, since then I can hopefully use 12' lumber for the top without having as many useless cutoffs.

[estesbubba]

I agree that you should find a way to make it full-sized. The bench is a lot of work and making it smaller isn't going to be much less work, plus it's a project you'll probably never want to do again anytime soon. Do it right the first time and enjoy it the rest of your life. 

If they won't fit in the shed, can the hose reel, tires, shovels, garden tools be kept outside? You can build a 2nd shed or replace the current one with a bigger one. Do you have a deck? Store stuff under there. Do you mainly do woodworking in the winter? Move summer into into the house attic. 

[Eric.]

I refuse to believe it can't be worked out.  Gotta get organized.  Cull out some trash in the house.  I guarantee there's four or six square feet of worthless crap strewn about the house and shed that you can get rid of.  Guarantee.  Get rid of it.  Organize.  Prioritize.

Just trying to help you not make a mistake.  It's an important build...no point in half-assing it and having regrets later.

[Cochese]

Where are your tires stored? Put them up on the wall if they aren't already.

[drzaius]

I gotta say, listen to the guys that are saying go big. I'm just finally finishing my bench, which has been at least 4 year in the making, & it's only 75" long. I already regret that it isn't longer. I'll make it work cause this thing is a 400 lb hard maple monster, but I wish I knew then what I know now.

[Chestnut]

Yard sale? Ceiling storage for items that you can't get rid of but still want to keep? Do you follow the 1 or 2 year rule?

 

[wtnhighlander]

I'd like to ask what sort of projects do you exoect to build? If you enjoy mostly small stuff like jewelry boxes and cutting boards, your short bench is fine. It will be a challenge to build full-sized furniture on it, though. Voice of experience.

Alternatively, you might build a fold-away assembly table to suppliment the bench. The actual working area of the bench is just the spot where your tool is cutting, the rest us just holing the work off the floor.

[SawDustB]

Wow, you guys have been busy with the suggestions. I have been thinking about organization, getting rid of stuff, etc. As I alluded to over the summer, I painted everything, I've put up slat wall in there to help organize, and I've actually gotten rid of quite a bit and it's looking pretty good (at least compared to what it was). Trust me when I say I've considered all of the suggestions here already, and I've thought about trying a couple of them (or I already have). I'm also holding out hope that I might be able to squeeze a real dust collector in there at some point, and I still don't have a band saw (and probably won't, unless I can basically take over the space). Similar to the guys that need to wheel everything out of the way to park cars, I can't completely monopolize the space.

12 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

I'd like to ask what sort of projects do you exoect to build? If you enjoy mostly small stuff like jewelry boxes and cutting boards, your short bench is fine. It will be a challenge to build full-sized furniture on it, though. Voice of experience.

Alternatively, you might build a fold-away assembly table to suppliment the bench. The actual working area of the bench is just the spot where your tool is cutting, the rest us just holing the work off the floor.

I tend to do smaller scale projects, but I'm early enough into this I don't know for sure what I might be doing in 10 years. I have a couple of full scale builds I may want to tackle at some point (desks, other bedroom furniture) but most of my project list tends to be smaller. I don't see an issue with using a fold up assembly table for the rare occasions where I would need a larger surface. I was sure I saw an idea for one that hooked into the bench so the bench surface became part of the assembly table to give a much larger combined surface.

Anyway, I am going to ditch the idea of being really small (5 feet) that required the angled stretcher and I'm at least going to expand the bench to where I can proceed with normal construction. It should still end up being 5.5 to 6 feet, and I figure it'll be pushing 300 lb, so it will be an amazing improvement over my setup now. I haven't cut anything yet, so I've still got time to mull it over. Thanks for the input.

[wtnhighlander]

You can make it work, don't worry. My bench is only 50" long.

[mat60]

My bench isn't big so I just install a 3ft by7ft piece of ply on it when I need more room. Some cleats underneath and it stays put. Not pretty it does the job and I can just lift it off.

[SawDustB]

My bench isn't big so I just install a 3ft by7ft piece of ply on it when I need more room. Some cleats underneath and it stays put. Not pretty it does the job and I can just lift it off.

That seems like a pretty simple and effective solution to making it bigger for assembly.

[SawDustB]

So I just saw an offer on Facebook for 40 percent off the split top Roubo project. Needless to say, that seems like it'll be incredibly helpful so I picked it up. Just figured I'd mention it in case anyone else was waiting for a sale on it.

[SawDustB]

I think the design is basically set now that I signed up for the guild project. To summarize:

1. The bench will be between 5.5 and 6 feet in length. I bought 8/4 hard maple in nominal 12 foot lengths so it's a couple inches longer (enough for the top). It will be as close to 6 feet as I can get, depending on defects and slab glue up. I'm OK if it ends up being 5' 10" or something instead.@TIODS has helped me with a few suggestions for the shop, but we both agreed that the 6 foot bench is probably the right fit for my workspace.

2. My bench is going to follow the plans as much as possible. This means I'll be making the overhang on the right side of the bench match the 19 and change in the plans rather than the 18 I had planned.

3. I'll take part of the difference in length from the left overhang, and part from the middle. I want at least a four inch overhang, and if I remove length from the middle it'll be an exact multiple of the dog hole spacing. This means everything should work out around the legs with them.

4. The vises will be assembled based on vise screws I'm buying from Lee valley. I also plan to put on the criss cross mechanism with the leg vise.

5. I'm thinking for the end cap I'll do the unglued condor tails with bolts. Especially with doing my own vise, I want to be able to remove it if necessary.

6. The bench will be hard maple, with either walnut or cherry for the end cap and chop. Still deciding.

7. Square dogs. I'm convinced based on all the arguments that they're awesome. I'm also going to add a few round holdfast holes according to the plans.

8. I'm going to use the knock down bench bolts for the assembly. I'm also going to try to get some of the rockler bench wheels so it can be mobile.

Anyway, I'll start my build journal soon. I've got a lot of guild videos to watch too.

[SawDustB]

 

I've started the new thread with the actual build, as in the link above. Thanks for chiming in, guys.