bushwacked Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 So I’ve been asked to build a couple coffee tables. This is the first of probably 2-3 that will be coming. The top - knotty Alder The base - metal legs more than likely I will be using a danish oil tinted finish on it to get a medium walnut color. Yes staining wood and metal legs .. right down @EricS wheelhouse of love haha. I bought the wood on lunch break. 8/4 knotty alder was $2 a BF. Which was nice the base will be these ... 16”x 16” x 3” rough steel with a clear sealer on them. $80 shipped off amazon. Questions before fore I get going ... the knots in the alder .. do I leave them? Do I have to fill them with epoxy? If so do I color the epoxy or what? Do they need to be filled before I plane/joint them? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 I would epoxy them before milling to ensure they're stable. As for the coloring, that would depend on the desired outcome. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 20 minutes ago, TIODS said: I would epoxy them before milling to ensure they're stable. As for the coloring, that would depend on the desired outcome. Ok. I’m assuming west epoxy is the thing to get? What model numbers though? The color I would like to match as much as possible. If it’s off a little that is fine. Just not trying to make it a standout feature piece haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 If you're going to get WS, then 105 resin and 205 or 206 hardener. One is a little faster than the other. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted December 4, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 207 hardener cures clear, so you can add sanding dust or other stuff to color it as you like. I just filled some voids in red oak with WS 105/207 mixed with dried coffee grounds to mimic bark inclusions. Looks great, and smells like coffee when I scrape it flush. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Like the wood and steel blend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 So one more question ... do I need to fill the knots? If it’s trying to be a little rustic a little modern ... the knots may look kinda good... may ... would I have to worry about my board blowing up through the planer or jointer if they are not filled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, bushwacked said: So one more question ... do I need to fill the knots? If it’s trying to be a little rustic a little modern ... the knots may look kinda good... may ... would I have to worry about my board blowing up through the planer or jointer if they are not filled? I think it would make for a nicer looking top 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, bushwacked said: So one more question ... do I need to fill the knots? If it’s trying to be a little rustic a little modern ... the knots may look kinda good... may ... would I have to worry about my board blowing up through the planer or jointer if they are not filled? If those knots aren't stable then you could have issues in the planer. I've had them come out before and was probably lucky that the planer wasn't damaged but, was bummed about starting over on the piece I was working on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Ok then. Sounds like I’ll be off to the store tomorrow and getting some west systems. 105 and probably 205? The quicker drying stuff. Even though I’ll let everything sit overnight if not a couple days when I can get back in the shop. West will dry perfectly clear right? I’m debating on clear or dyed. Also how does it work with the stain? Just try not to get it on the epoxy or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan G Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 The 205 is the fast hardener but in reality it still cures fairly slow. Also it does not cure clear. You need the 207 if you want that. As for dying it, I just add a drop of transtint in and mix it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Irrevelant pet peve epoxy cures it doesn't dry. I can't help it sorry. 207 dries clear. I'd fill the knots even if they are stable the holes in the top will get annoying after some time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 21 minutes ago, Chestnut said: Irrevelant pet peve epoxy cures it doesn't dry. I can't help it sorry. 207 dries clear. I'd fill the knots even if they are stable the holes in the top will get annoying after some time. Actually an important and relevant point. It's difficult to work well with epoxy without understanding the difference. On whether to fill the knots: our trim and cabinets are knotty alder that has been stained but not filled. Looks great. Coffee tables might be different, since they are horizontal surfaces that will collect debris. Decide how you feel about that. We have a dining room table made from Knotty alder, with the knots and voids filled with black tinted epoxy, and looks great (in this neck of the woods - the West, ironically, it is System Three that is most available.) I will send pictures if you want them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 42 minutes ago, Pondhockey said: Actually an important and relevant point. It's difficult to work well with epoxy without understanding the difference. On whether to fill the knots: our trim and cabinets are knotty alder that has been stained but not filled. Looks great. Coffee tables might be different, since they are horizontal surfaces that will collect debris. Decide how you feel about that. We have a dining room table made from Knotty alder, with the knots and voids filled with black tinted epoxy, and looks great (in this neck of the woods - the West, ironically, it is System Three that is most available.) I will send pictures if you want them. Yes that would be great to see. Thanks! Map should I go with black trans tint dye for this? I would assume trying to match just makes things ugly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Coop Posted December 5, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: Irrevelant pet peve epoxy cures it doesn't dry. I can't help it sorry. 207 CURES clear. IFIFY 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, K Cooper said: IFIFY how embarassing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 45 minutes ago, bushwacked said: Yes that would be great to see. Thanks! Map should I go with black trans tint dye for this? I would assume trying to match just makes things ugly? If your finish is on the dark side, I'd go with a black tinted epoxy. If it is lighter and you want to highlight the underlying knotty figure, then go clear. Clear is harder, involving bubbles, etc. Here are some pic's; the trim and table are both on the darker finish side. The trim used a Van Dyke Brown glaze/stain (used both ways.) The table was commercial and I don't know the particulars except that the voids and knots were apparently filled with black epoxy. Maybe the bottom line is that both methods are commonly used. First images are trim with Van Dyke Brown (comes out black, really) knot. Following images are of commercial table made from knotty alder and filled with black tinted epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted December 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Oh that looks great! Thanks for sending those and now my mind is made up on what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 If you are going for a natural finish you could take a scrap with a large knot in it and sand it into darker sawdust to mix into the epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 I also suggest masking around the knots to prevent the overfill from leaving stains to plane / scrape / sand away. Don't ask how I know ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 +1 on masking the knot before filling. Alder is on the softer side of things and filler or epoxy will soak in and leave a shadow that isn't easy to sand out. It took me concerted effort with a card scraper and the result was still a slight depression, but the shadow was gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Probably could try a few things on the underside or on scrap, first. To wdwerker and highlander: with sanding does your result come out continuously smooth from wood to epoxied void? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 By filling (stabilizing) before you mill, you should be able to avoid taping off the knots. If you need to touch up the spots after milling then I would tape. Obviously, you still need to tape the underside to keep your epoxy where you want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minorhero Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 If you don't want to go down the west system rabbit hole right now you can just buy quick cure epoxy at home Depot. Is cheaper and works fine. I use it all the time for filling knots. I always tint mine black. I like the look. Also you can get rid of bubbles in epoxy by using a heat gun and playing it over the just poured epoxy. If you have never filled a large void with epoxy before than do a test piece first. You may be surprised by the number of bubbles and speed of cure etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 @Pondhockey, yes. If the void is completely filled, it makes a nice smooth transition from the wood. Regarding the comment by @minorhero, I often use Devcon 5-minute epoxy to fill smaller voids. It cures clear, and is readily available in most home centers and hardware stores. I don't recommend it for holes of any size (bigger than a dime), or thin cracks, because it is thicker and cures too quickly to properly settle into the nooks & crannies. It is also much more brittle than WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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