RR60 Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Always used minwax stains mostly but is anything that much better? For a oil stain on new work Read a lot of good reviews on GF gel stains. But dont understand why people would like the product. Seems like it dries to quick for a large table top. Does not penetrate and seems it would be more or a paint. GF does make a regular penetrating oil based stain but not in dark colors Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Penetrating stain doens't get that dark even the minwax that I've used is fairly light on properly prepared wood. They do offer oil based gel stains that have some dark colors. A gel stain would be better for a dark color anyway. There is also the option of just using a dark colored wood and not staining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Try the dyes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Penetrating stain is for highly absorbing wood, like oak. It soaks it up and you can get wood quite dark, if desired. Gel stains work on woods which don't absorb much, like hard maple. You are correct, gel stains are more like a paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ..Kev Posted January 3, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 What's stain? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleedinblue Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Whats the effective difference between stain and dye? They both soak into the wood to change the color...so is the difference just chemistry mumbo-jumbo or what? Like most here, I left stain behind with my pocket hole jig and Home Depot pine. *of course we don't know what you use it for, obviously if you are doing repairs or period work, whatever, stain could certainly be necessary* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR60 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Looking at the general finishes website again. They also have water based dye stains. I guess I would have to seal coat to use a oil poloy. My normal was always oil stain and poloy. Project is a red oak table that would get a fair amount of use and sits by a window. So durability and UV maybe a little concern. Water based dye or powdered dyes. Oil or take a chance on water poloy. Do the gel stains look as good as the regular oil or dye stains? What would everyone use in my case. Once I get away from my normal routine seems to be getting a little confusing which is best. Thanks for any suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, RR60 said: Looking at the general finishes website again. They also have water based dye stains. I guess I would have to seal coat to use a oil poloy. My normal was always oil stain and poloy. Project is a red oak table that would get a fair amount of use and sits by a window. So durability and UV maybe a little concern. Water based dye or powdered dyes. Oil or take a chance on water poloy. Do the gel stains look as good as the regular oil or dye stains? What would everyone use in my case. Once I get away from my normal routine seems to be getting a little confusing which is best. Thanks for any suggestions. I honestly use minwax stains despite their bad reputation they are just what i know. In my opinion for a critical piece the product you know even if it's inferior might work better than the product you don't know. Gel stains are going to stain the wood the colors will probably be different, looking good is subjective can't help ya there. This is kinda long but has a lot of good information in it despite being for blotchy woods. https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/coloring-blotchy-woods/ There isn't really a best honestly there are just different methods to get to the desired outcome. I believe that each method or product has it's own downfalls. Some might have larger downfalls but they might not matter based off of what you are doing. They key is try and get sample sizes of products and do experiments on boards for your project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Sometimes a combination of an initial coat of dye followed with a stain will achieve the most consistent dark rich colors. General has both that are compatible. Almost all commercially available furniture with a dark rich finish is sprayed. A lot of those colors are achieved with a mixture of dye & stain in the same product. If you strip off the finish the base wood is something akin to popular. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 What color is floating your boat? -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Chestnut said: I honestly use minwax stains despite their bad reputation they are just what i know. In my opinion for a critical piece the product you know even if it's inferior might work better than the product you don't know. Gel stains are going to stain the wood the colors will probably be different, looking good is subjective can't help ya there. This is kinda long but has a lot of good information in it despite being for blotchy woods. https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/coloring-blotchy-woods/ There isn't really a best honestly there are just different methods to get to the desired outcome. I believe that each method or product has it's own downfalls. Some might have larger downfalls but they might not matter based off of what you are doing. They key is try and get sample sizes of products and do experiments on boards for your project. I use mostly minwax stains because I had several cans from various projects before I knew any better, and they last an extremely long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Isaac said: I use mostly minwax stains because I had several cans from various projects before I knew any better, and they last an extremely long time! I should try branching out but i adopted a better mentality use walnut and cherry and throw the stain away. I have a brown dye i like for maple. And that's really the only thing i'd ever really color other than oak. I only have 50 BF of that left and once it's gone i'm not going to buy more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Chestnut said: I should try branching out but i adopted a better mentality use walnut and cherry and throw the stain away. I have a brown dye i like for maple. And that's really the only thing i'd ever really color other than oak. I only have 50 BF of that left and once it's gone i'm not going to buy more. Yeah I understand. I'm just amazed how much coverage you actually get out of even those tiny cans of minwax stain. I suppose if I was making dressers or bigger pieces, they would use it more quickly, but still, stains go a pretty long way. Also, I imagine stains in general are normally used to achieve colors wood appearance that a person couldn't otherwise acquire or afford. I'm still working with the real thing, but have noticed my local walnut prices are climbing a lot, so if someone wanted a nice walnut look, but couldn't afford it, I don't begrudge them staining something cheaper. The other use that people don't talk about much here is using stain as a way to hold color. ie. staining walnut with walnut stain, to help keep it darker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post woodbutcher74 Posted January 3, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 hours ago, TIODS said: What's stain? It's what left in your shorts when your bandsaw blade snaps. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, woodbutcher74 said: It's what left in your shorts when your bandsaw blade snaps. Been there, done that, and got the T-shirt! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 9 hours ago, RR60 said: Do the gel stains look as good as the regular oil or dye stains? This is General Finishes Antique Walnut Gel Stain and Satin Arm-R-Seal for a top coat on Quarter Sawn White Oak. It was part of a four step recipe. I don't normally use stain but in this case I was looking for something specific in the final color. I was real happy with how the stain went on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 @bleedinblue , as I understand it, the term "stain" generally refers to a product that is made up of pigment particles suspended into a carrier. If you let a can sit long enough, the particles will settle out, leaving you with 1/4 can of mud and 3/4 can of juice. Dyes are either a fine pigment, fully-dissolved (like Transtint), or a chemical concoction that reacts with the wood to change its color (like iron acetate or potassium dichromate). On porous woods like red oak, pigment stains really build up in the pores, making them contrast with the surrounding wood, while dyes seems to color more evenly. If I'm mistaken about these statements, maybe one of the pros will jump in with more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 All I'm going to add is that I've done this for a long time and my best finishes were definitely post Minwax. I use a lot of pro waterbourne finishes these days. I use a mix of solvent and water based stains and dyes. General makes some of the best stuff available retail. It takes some practice to learn how to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR60 Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 This was about the color I was looking for maybe a little darker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AceHoleInOne Posted January 4, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 General Finishes Cinnamon dye. General Finishes Black Cherry stain. General Finishes High Performance topcoat. They are water-based. The best way to achieve this color is to spray the dye. Seal that down with General Finishes high performance. Glaze with black cherry stain. Spray another coat of high performance and glaze with another coat of black cherry. If you're going to hand apply, the problem will be getting the sealer down (high performance) over the dye. Hand applying the high performance over the dye can redissolve and remove color making things messy. ...........................Practice on test boards..................... Cinnamon dye will take you more red tone, Vintage cherry dye will take you more brown tone. -Ace- 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmize Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 This is minwax dark expresso gel stain over cherry. I use it to match the crib in the room. I applied it to the raw wood no seal coat. I tried several sample boards before deciding on the end result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al King Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Boy, you guys are way above my paygrade when talking about stains and finishes. This is exactly why I like this site. I am going to learn so much. I have already read about ARS which I didn't know about (and just ordered). This is the best site !!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al King Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Tmize said: This is minwax dark expresso gel stain over cherry. I use it to match the crib in the room. I applied it to the raw wood no seal coat. I tried several sample boards before deciding on the end result Beautifully done !!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmize Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I have been reading on here for 6-8 months an the help an info here is so much better than any of the other sites I've been on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcschoenthal Posted March 18, 2018 Report Share Posted March 18, 2018 The gel stain is indeed like a paint in that it doesn't penetrate. This can be beneficial on woods that tend to blotch, as it gives a more uniform and even color. You are also able to darken the finish by adding additional coats until you get the color you need. You can also blend colors together to get closer to what you are looking for. Chris "It's never too late to have a happy childhood" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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