Rob Cosman's drawer making and fitting method

[sjeff70]

I know a few members here have been to his classes based on a search of this forum but I didn't see any threads specific to Cosman's drawer making. I got hooked into watching his 30 episode drawer making series and while it is highly inspiring it is also very daunting. If you put your drawer together and it doesn't fall in alignment, the drawer will be racked and not sit flush on a flat surface.

During the series his first drawer attempt fails because it ends up being out of alignment by 1/8 so he decided to start completely over. The second attempt was out a 1/16. He glued it up and clamped it by shimming the high side overnight but ultimately it ended up being out 1/64 - 1/32. 

Anyone here make drawers this way and fit them into their opening the way he does? 

[wtnhighlander]

Certainly no one that is actually making furniture for a living. No profit possible when tossing multiple iterations of the drawer for such slight imperfections.

But, if you are into it for the pure craftsmanship, no reason you can't shoot for flawlessness.

[krtwood]

I don't know how he makes his drawers but I have these things called tools that I use to make things that aren't flat become flat.  I also use them to make the drawer.  I don't know how he manages to make the drawer but not be able to flatten it when the flattening is about the most basic skill that you need to make the drawer in the first place.

[Tom King]

I haven't watched any of his stuff, and now I'm sure I won't.

[Tpt life]

You have to remember he is not a pure trainer, but also a content creator. When I figured that out, I walked away. There is too much “content” to wade through. 

[JohnG]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:00 PM, krtwood said:

I don't know how he makes his drawers but I have these things called tools that I use to make things that aren't flat become flat.  I also use them to make the drawer.  I don't know how he manages to make the drawer but not be able to flatten it when the flattening is about the most basic skill that you need to make the drawer in the first place.

I may be wrong, but I think his method aims for the “piston fit” built to the exact size needed, so any trimming after glue up will lose that effect, though would still be a perfectly fine functioning drawer.

Sure, it’s nice to say you can do that, but it’s mainly to brag to other woodworkers. Will a typical person notice the difference between that fit and a drawer where 1/8” tolerance would be acceptable? Probably not unless you explain the difference and have them side by side. 

If you want to go for that for your own personal satisfaction, go for it! But don’t be fooled into thinking it’s necessary or expected.

[sjeff70]

I don’t know of anyone well known who tries to get that piston fit. Sides of the drawer fitted very close yes. Must be extremely difficult.

[Chestnut]

Meh piston fit is over rated i did it once then had to drill holes in the drawer so you could open and close it.

I like Cremona's method that he probably got from some one else. Make the drawer narrower in the back then the front. It makes the perfect fit pretty easy but also allows for loose drawer movement. I always shoot to oversize the drawer front and hand plane to fit. Makes nailing that 1/32" uniform reveal easy. The only part of the drawer that requires high precision is the face. This is assuming inset drawers for overlay drawers 1/8" gap sounds perfect. The overlay covers it up.

[BonPacific]

On 1/8/2023 at 4:33 AM, Tpt life said:

You have to remember he is not a pure trainer, but also a content creator. When I figured that out, I walked away. There is too much “content” to wade through. 

I mostly know his name by all his branded products. Didn't he have a big deal with Woodcraft?

[Tpt life]

26 minutes ago, BonPacific said:

I mostly know his name by all his branded products. Didn't he have a big deal with Woodcraft?

I am not a shopper there. I got access to his stuff with a WoodRiver plane a few years ago. He is incredibly opinionated, not sharing any alternate ideas. That is not without value as a brand new woodworker, but some things he does I have found alternate ways to approach. Remember, I build very little, and am much more into repair. 

[sjeff70]

On 1/8/2023 at 12:23 PM, Chestnut said:

Meh piston fit is over rated i did it once then had to drill holes in the drawer so you could open and close it.

I like Cremona's method that he probably got from some one else. Make the drawer narrower in the back then the front. It makes the perfect fit pretty easy but also allows for loose drawer movement. I always shoot to oversize the drawer front and hand plane to fit. Makes nailing that 1/32" uniform reveal easy. The only part of the drawer that requires high precision is the face. This is assuming inset drawers for overlay drawers 1/8" gap sounds perfect. The overlay covers it up.

I watched Cremona's bureau build this past summer and I did compare the two styles. I don't know if it's pertinent but Cosman's drawer is narrower in the back, he just uses the back to template the front. 

I don't think Cremona showed the drawer reveal up close when he was done which I was disappointed in because I wanted to see his style which is extremely important.

 

 

What might be important here is Cosman uses full sized dust covers and tight fitting sides to create air pressure. I don't think the air pressure aides in making it more difficult to fit the drawer because he fits it first without the drawer bottom and gets an impressive one-finger-on-a-corner-close fit. I think it's the tight tolerances of the front and sides of the drawer that make it difficult to fit.

Which leads me to the question.  What is the fine woodworking standard when we start talking about how far away should the drawer sides be away from the case when closed?      

[sjeff70]

On 1/8/2023 at 7:08 AM, JohnG said:

I may be wrong, but I think his method aims for the “piston fit” built to the exact size needed, so any trimming after glue up will lose that effect, though would still be a perfectly fine functioning drawer.

Sure, it’s nice to say you can do that, but it’s mainly to brag to other woodworkers. Will a typical person notice the difference between that fit and a drawer where 1/8” tolerance would be acceptable? Probably not unless you explain the difference and have them side by side. 

If you want to go for that for your own personal satisfaction, go for it! But don’t be fooled into thinking it’s necessary or expected.

When you say 1/8 tolerance are you talking about the distance from the sides of the drawer to the case when closed? 

[wtnhighlander]

Bear in mind that a 'piston fit' drawer will become a seized piston with a relatively small rise in humidity. Seems like the small back, big front method would avoid that, for the most part.

[Chestnut]

15 hours ago, sjeff70 said:

Which leads me to the question.  What is the fine woodworking standard when we start talking about how far away should the drawer sides be away from the case when closed? 

I don't know of any "standards" in fine woodworking. If there are any claimed they are most likely BS. Fine woodworking can be anything you make it, despite what elitists claim it to be, myself included .

Cremona has a few guild builds that show the drawer process better, though the serpentine drawer series is almost to the same level. I should also highlight that Crosman seems like a pedant and has to have it machinist perfect, where as Cremona is very much in the opinion of "Meh good enough". He does explain it here https://youtu.be/9Li15AtIQks but i agree it'd have been nice if he showed it in a bit more detail as he did in the guild builds. Also the end of the video is how he fits the drawers which is how I usually handle inset drawers. I oversize them and then shave them down to fit.

I also like to point out his advice of gluing the drawers and letting them dry in their opening fully closed is great advice. Any minor inconsistencies in squareness of the case will then be reflected to the drawer. If the drawer front is perfect when you size it and glue it, the drawer should remain that way. Is it square? Who knows who cares the look is what matters. The look is always what matters, because my wife doesn't walk around with a machinist square checking my work. God i hope she never does that, the stuff i make is nowhere near  square.

[gee-dub]

On 1/8/2023 at 4:52 PM, wtnhighlander said:

Bear in mind that a 'piston fit' drawer will become a seized piston with a relatively small rise in humidity. Seems like the small back, big front method would avoid that, for the most part.

Too true.  I had to redesign a back in a chest of drawers because every time you closed a drawer too fast another would pop open.  My fault.  In addition to building for seasonal movement, the carcass has to breathe.