Dovetails for Roubo workbench. Standar or houndstooth?

[Sergio Escudero]

I am at the point where I have to make dovetails to join the final cross piece to the top and finish making the wagon vise by gluing the final board with the dovetail. I have never made a single dovetail, but I consider myself careful when working (it is not for nothing that I am making my Roubo almost exclusively with hand tools, having learned during the process). How much more difficult is it to make houndstooth dovetails compared to standard ones? Do they provide greater strength? What should I keep in mind?

I only have a Veritas dovetail saw, the fine-toothed one, and a handful of chisels. Is that enough?

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

So...a couple of things here. 

If you're doing it all by hand, hounds tooth isn't THAT much harder than regular, it's just double the amount of work. They are a little stronger as there's more long grain gluing area, but regular DTs are plenty strong. So not a huge advantage there. 

I'd check the depth of cut in your saw and make sure it's capable of sawing tails that large. You said fine tooth veritas so that's what, 20 PPI?

That's asking a lot of that fine of a saw, as i assume your tail board is probably 8/4(?). Usually the fine tooth dt saws are for thin stock - 1/2"and less. 

You may want to pick up a tenon saw for this one. 

The only other thing I'll mention is to make sure your tail board is 100% straight and true. When i did mine, after i seated the joint, my tail board was sitting proud of the benchtop on the opposite end, and that was a challenge to fix. 

Make sure your chisels are damn sharp, and take your time. 

Look in YouTube for Frank Strazza, he does a lot of roubo houndstooth and is a good example to follow. 

 

Good luck sir. 

 

[Sergio Escudero]

I have checked my saw and it does not provide the required cutting depth. I hadn't thought about that before. What type of tenon saw would you recommend? I hadn't planned on this expense, but I see that I have no choice. Would the Veritas Rip Tenon Saw be suitable? I'm lost when it comes to saws. I find Lie Nielsen tools too expensive for my budget. What other alternatives should I consider?

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 10/1/2025 at 11:05 AM, Sergio Escudero said:

I have checked my saw and it does not provide the required cutting depth. I hadn't thought about that before. What type of tenon saw would you recommend? I hadn't planned on this expense, but I see that I have no choice. Would the Veritas Rip Tenon Saw be suitable? I'm lost when it comes to saws. I find Lie Nielsen tools too expensive for my budget. What other alternatives should I consider?

Any tenon saw with sufficient depth of cut should do. 13-16ppi in that range.

In the US, if you go to an antique store or flea market you can find them for $5-$10. You will probably need to sharpen it - not a big deal since your filing it rip for this application. Hopefully there's comparable sources in your area?

 

Although... If you're going to do hand tool woodworking, you're eventually going to need more than 1 dovetail saw, so buying new isn't a terrible idea either. How's that for talking out of both sides of my mouth??

[Sergio Escudero]

The second-hand tool market in Spain is completely non-existent (flea market/antique store), and most of what I can find online in second-hand stores around here is junk in many cases, or unbranded items. If I knew as much about saws as I do about planes, I would be able to better discern what I find. The best one I see is this one. The handle looks like it's made of holm oak.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

That looks like it would do the job just fine. 

Saws are a funny tool. Most of what you're paying for in a premium saw is the handle. Antiques can usually be easily restored and do a fine job. Cheapies from the hardware store also work just fine.  So you don't need to go premium, though I'm the first to admit that premium is really nice. 

[Von]

My philosophy is, contrary to the "buy once cry once" approach, if I can buy a tool I'm not familiar with cheap, I buy it. If I learn it's a piece of junk, so be it. What I learn from the experience will make it worth it. Often it will be enough for me to better understand what features are important to me and to better appreciate a premium tool. And sometimes I learn the cheap tool is fine for my needs. The approach also helps me get through "paralysis by analysis" on what tool to buy.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 10/1/2025 at 1:18 PM, Von said:

My philosophy is, contrary to the "buy once cry once" approach, if I can buy a tool I'm not familiar with cheap, I buy it. If I learn it's a piece of junk, so be it. What I learn from the experience will make it worth it. Often it will be enough for me to better understand what features are important to me and to better appreciate a premium tool. And sometimes I learn the cheap tool is fine for my needs. The approach also helps me get through "paralysis by analysis" on what tool to buy.

That's a great approach. 

I have a buddy who is an extremely skilled golfer. And his clubs cost more than some people's cars. 

And yet when i tried them out, i still couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. Because you can't buy skill. 

Premium tools are nice, and they certainly won't hurt anything, but they're far from a necessity. 

[Sergio Escudero]

I spoke to the seller, but unfortunately they don't ship. I remembered the Ducotools website, where I've bought quite a few planes. I saw these saws. They all seem to be in good condition ahd ~ 42cm long and fairly evenly priced. What would you recommend?

Taylor Brothers Sheffield


Unbranded


Marples & Sons


John Cockeril Sheffield

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

Definitely. They all look like winners, but #2 looks far and away the best of the bunch

[Sergio Escudero]

Yep, the unbranded one have a really nice handle.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

Pull it apart, refinish that handle, polish the brass and that will be a work of functional art. 

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 10/1/2025 at 2:48 PM, Sergio Escudero said:

Yep, the unbranded one have a really nice handle.

Yes it has a very nice handle. It also has a medallion - which means they didn't skimp on the fasteners. It's a small sign of quality and will probably tell you who the maker is, if it's original to the saw. 

[Sergio Escudero]

On 10/1/2025 at 9:51 PM, Ron Swanson Jr. said:

who the maker is

I can't see who the manufacturer is.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 10/1/2025 at 3:04 PM, Sergio Escudero said:

I can't see who the manufacturer is.

That's a Disston medallion (huge US manufacturer back in the day).

Warranted Superior was their budget line, but I've never seen a handle like that on a Disston saw. So that medallion is probably not original to the saw. 

[Sergio Escudero]

I think I'm going to buy the saw. I'll need to buy files to sharpen it, so I'll see what types of files I need and how to do it. Thank you very much. I like being here, I learn a lot from you all.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

You need a triangle (3 sided) file. The width of each side should be roughly twice the size of the saw tooth. So for those saws, a double extra slim taper file should be about right. Pretty sure that's the size i use. Bahco is a good brand. A cheap file will work fine but won't last as long. 

[wtnhighlander]

@Sergio Escudero, all the advice in this thread has been good. I would add another option to consider when working from a tight budget. Japanese pull saws can often be purchased at far less cost, maybe 10%, and do the job quite well. They commonly have hardened teeth that can not be resharpened, making the saw plate a replaceable item. Over a long period, you MIGHT spend more replacing blades than buying a western-style saw you can resharpen, but it would take a while. The other advantage is that the plates can be made of thinner steel, since they don't have to resist bending on the cutting stroke, so they take a thinner kerf.

I don't advocate one over the other, as I use both. Just pointing out the option.

[Coop]

On 10/1/2025 at 3:49 PM, Sergio Escudero said:

I like being here, I learn a lot from you all.

I too am amazed at the knowledge of a lot of the members here! I learn something new and useful every day. 

[Mark J]

I've never made a dovetail,  but in general I'm a fan of pull saws.  I think they're easier to use.

[Immortan D]

I have both western and Japanese dovetail saws. I get by far better results when I use my western saws, I don't know the reason, they just work better for me at following a line. I currently use Japanese saws for resawing only.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 10/2/2025 at 8:43 AM, Immortan D said:

I get by far better results when I use my western saws, I don't know the reason, they just work better for me at following a line. 

The blade on your Western saw is thicker, and stiffer thanks to the spine. Which is a big part of that. Another part is the difference in handle. A lot of the Japanese saws will cut much straighter if you use both hands on that long handle and center it on your body. With Western, you need to get your body out of the way. 

 

One theory that i believe to be true is that Western saws evolved the way they did, and Japanese saws went the way that they did, is mostly due to the differences in native timber. The West had more larger and harder timber; where the Japanese and Eastern woods were softer. 

I've never been to Japan or the far east, and have no idea how true that is, but it makes sense to me at least. 

And this is not to disparage the eastern saws or suggest that they can't cut  hardwood. Many Western woodworkers use them religiously and produce mind bending work with them. 

[Immortan D]

On 10/2/2025 at 11:43 AM, Ron Swanson Jr. said:

The blade on your Western saw is thicker, and stiffer thanks to the spine. Which is a big part of that. Another part is the difference in handle. A lot of the Japanese saws will cut much straighter if you use both hands on that long handle and center it on your body. With Western, you need to get your body out of the way. 

I use both hands when resawing. But for hand cut dovetails it is not an option. Many people use magnetic dovetail guides with Japanese saws and they get excellent results.

[h3nry]

On 10/1/2025 at 9:04 PM, Sergio Escudero said:

I can't see who the manufacturer is.

I think Disston used an eagle or scales for their logo ... a crown and the motto of the British monarchy ("dieu et mon droit") makes me think that this saw must have been made by one of the many british toolmakers in Sheffield.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

I think you're right @h3nry. After extensive research (Google search, 1 min reading) i just learned that Warranted Superior was used on the Disston budget line, but wasn't specific to it and was used by other manufacturers as well. Live and learn!