Mick S Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 This morning's planing workout convinced me to take the plunge on a smoothing plane. The only decent bench planes I own are LN and I use the #62 for most bench operations. Love them, but I'm not averse to going with Veritas if there's a convincing reason. That said, Veritas and LN both make low angle smoothers and #4, as well as #4 1/2.I'd love to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of each.Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm one of the old guys, I've not used either one.. However since I use mostly Stanley's, I'll say this..... If I were going to go for a plane, I'd grab the 4 1/2. I love my Stanley 4 1/2... I have a couple of #4's, but the 4 1/2 gets 10 times the use that they do. The weight makes the plane so much easier to use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm more comfortable with standard angle planes for smoothing. I use either my LN#3 or my Stanley#4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I love the lv bevel up smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted August 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm more comfortable with standard angle planes for smoothing. I use either my LN#3 or my Stanley#4. What is it that you like better? I ask because one advantage of the low angle planes is being able to change out the blades to different bevels depending on what you're planing. I do like the LV adjustment for side to side - that's nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 For dedicated smoothing, I too prefer a standard 4 1/2. I might get into a high angle some day. I tend to keep the low angle set for end grain. I realize I Can change irons but rarely Want to. I think this is just a preference and not a "better" way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 What is it that you like better? I ask because one advantage of the low angle planes is being able to change out the blades to different bevels depending on what you're planing. I do like the LV adjustment for side to side - that's nice.LN's standard angle smoothing planes also let you change the angle by changing the frog. Three frogs are available: 45, 50 and 55 °. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) First things first, I'm not a hand tool guy -- If I can run something through a sander, then I do.... But for the past few years, I've been building more and more things that I can't, so I'm using planes on just about every project... Mostly smoothers, but sometimes jointers... I don't have the experience to say which planes are 'better', depends on how one defines 'better'... I can outline my selection process, if that's a help...I've got a mix of BU and BD in various sizes and pitches. Most from LN (I like their build quality)... I try to match the tool to the job...To select a smoother, I go to the till and start with which ones are sharp.... Sharp is way more important then #4, # 4 1/2, #5 1/4, BU, BD, York, Common, et al... I don't stop a project to sharpen, unless I have to... So I use the tools I've got at hand that are sharp... If an iron is dulled during use, I don't stop to sharpen -- I grab another plane -- even if it's not the best fit for the operation -- with a sharp edge, it's not that hard to make it work... There are some very respected craftsman that only use a 5 1/2 or 5 1/4 for everything -- sharp is more important than anything else...So, with several sharp planes available, I consider species: highly figured stock, I grab a BU if it's sharp or a BD/York if not... Cherry, I grab a BD/York, if sharp and a Std BD, if not...Size of component is considered next --- it drives size of plane: table leg, small box, small apron, etc = #3; larger aprons and small table tops = #4; something larger and I grab the 4 1/2, 5 1/2, etc...My top goto-s: LN/LA Smoother (I've got two, the figure determines the bevel), LN/BD/York #4 for Cherry and for smaller components (aprons, tapered legs, etc), the LN/BD/York #3... Edited August 25, 2015 by hhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I really like my LN low angle smoother. Absolutely no complaints with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4square Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have a veritas L/A smoother. Very nice plane but it doesn't have the weight that my old Stanley 4 1/2 has so I find it physically tougher to use. That being said, my 4 1/2 is the plane that I reach for 90 percent of the time for smoothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'm with Trip for the most part but my system is less complicated. I grab my #4 the vast majority of the time. I just love the feel of that plane and it's perfectly suited for most long grain scenarios. For gnarly grain or certain exotics I'll use my 4-1/2 which has a Middle Pitch frog (55*...even higher than York). It's definitely more work smoothing with this plane but it's hard to argue with the results. I keep the original low angle blade on my 164 and use it almost exclusively for end grain work.All of my bench planes are LN. But you could flip a coin and probably be happy with either. I prefer the feel, look and fit & finish of LN, but Veritas makes a fine plane and as long as you don't find the vertical tote uncomfortable I'm sure you'd be happy with them. To be fair, I prefer most Veritas joinery planes over LN. Because I'm a fair kinda guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'm with Trip for the most part but my system is less complicated. I grab my #4 the vast majority of the time. I just love the feel of that plane and it's perfectly suited for most long grain scenarios. For gnarly grain or certain exotics I'll use my 4-1/2 which has a Middle Pitch frog (55*...even higher than York). It's definitely more work smoothing with this plane but it's hard to argue with the results. I keep the original low angle blade on my 164 and use it almost exclusively for end grain work.All of my bench planes are LN. But you could flip a coin and probably be happy with either. I prefer the feel, look and fit & finish of LN, but Veritas makes a fine plane and as long as you don't find the vertical tote uncomfortable I'm sure you'd be happy with them. To be fair, I prefer most Veritas joinery planes over LN. Because I'm a fair kinda guy. I really appreciate all the replies! I do love the LN quality, but admit to having drooled over some of the Veritas planes at WIA and other shows.I think my instincts have been somewhat confirmed. I'll go with the LN #4 1/2 standard, then add a #4 with a York frog. I can see myself with a whole slew of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'll go with the LN #4 1/2 standard, then add a #4 with a York frog. I can see myself with a whole slew of them. Hi Micks. I would not be that quick. What I have to add may be overload, but I own or have experience with most premium smoothers.I own the LN #4 1/2 and the LN #3. The #4 1/2 rarely gets used. It is the type of plane you may use on a large table top, however it is a wide plane and more effort to push. I prefer nimble planes, such as a #3 or #4 size. The LN #3 is a superb plane. I first purchased it with a 55 degree bed, but this was not high enough to use on the highly interlocked woods I work with. Recently, I swapped it to a 45 degree frog which, used with the chipbreaker, planes anything. LN#3 with 45 degree frog planing Tasmanian Oak with close set chipbreaker. This has a modified #4 handle (which is slightly larger than the #3 handle). Note the straight shavings ...Having said this, I have a Stanley #3 (UK) which is fettled and uses the Veritas PM-V11 blade and chipbreaker. This performs as well as the LN, and only lacks the tight tolerances of the LN.The Veritas #4 custom plane is actually better still. This is because I have a 42 degree frog on it and, with the chipbreaker, it planes anything as well, but does a better job on softer woods than the #3. The Veritas is a more sophisticated plane, and together with the PM-V11 blade, it is a really amazing package. I do, however, prefer the lateral adjuster on the LN. Having said this, one sets up the lateral adjustment before planing, so this is not a deal breaker. Veritas #4 Custom with 42 degree frog planing highly interlocked Fiddleback Marri against the grain ...Both LN and LV perform very well with a 50 degree frog as well, and this would be another choice if you are working moderate grain and not using a tightly set chipbreaker.If you want a plane to use with minimal set up and assured performance (nothing to fiddle to work), or you are not confident of setting a chipbreaker close up, get the Veritas BU Smoother. This is one of the best performers around. Modified Veritas BUS with 62 degree cutting angle on interlocked Marri, and planing into the grain ..Regards from PerthDerek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Derek - Thanks for the very informative reply. Judging from your website, you have a great deal of experience with planes of all types - western, Japanese, metal, wooden, etc.I understand what you mean about the 4 1/2 requiring more effort. I rarely do realy large projects like tables, so the additional width may be more of a hindrance than a benefit.I think maybe I'll spend a little time reading some of your reviews before jumping in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Trip told me a while ago that for small pieces, the #3 is the smoothing plane. I followed his advice, got a LN#3 (45° frog) and couldn't be happier. I don't need a 50° frog because I don't work with figured woods.I think my next purchase is going to be a scraping plane, also from LN. I know they are not easy to use but would like to try one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Chris Schwarz recomends smaller smoothing planes http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/are-you-suffering-from-smoothing-plane-bloat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Trip told me a while ago that for small pieces, the #3 is the smoothing plane. I followed his advice, got a LN#3 (45° frog) and couldn't be happier. I don't need a 50° frog because I don't work with figured woods.I think my next purchase is going to be a scraping plane, also from LN. I know they are not easy to use but would like to try one.Daniel, why get a scraping plane if you do not work figured woods? That makes no sense. Save your money and purchase something else. Regards from PerthDerek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Daniel, why get a scraping plane if you do not work figured woods? That makes no sense. Save your money and purchase something else. Regards from PerthDerekWell I do a lot of card scraping on non figured woods. Wouldn't a scraping plane serve a similar purpose? Of course, I may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) ==>4-1/2 which has a Middle PitchMust get some workout pushing that beast... Especially if you’ve got it in bronze... ==>prefer nimble planes, such as a #3 or #4 size. The LN #3 is a superb plane. I first purchased it with a 55 degree bed, but this was not high enough to use on the highly interlocked woods I work with.That’s where I sit... I’ve got the 4 ½ and use it on larger table tops, but I use the #3 a lot more... It’s the nature of my work, I make a lot more table legs than large table tops (and no, it's not 4:1 -- more like 20:1 :))... I have a #4 in Mid, but almost never use it. I find Common and York pretty much handles the species we tend to work on this side of the pond. But then again, some guys over here work Mesquite... You down-under guys work those gnarly Western desert hardwoods --- I could see Mid and BU being your go-to... ==>The #4 1/2 rarely gets used. It is the type of plane you may use on a large table top, however it is a wide plane and more effort to push.If you tune the 4 ½ to a super-fine smoother, then it would be OK with Cherry, Mahogany, straight grained Maple, etc... I’d find the 4 ½ too much work if it was my only smoother... When I plan to use the 4 ½, then I take a preliminary pass or two with a #4 and leave only the final pass for the 4 ½... ==>I think my next purchase is going to be a scraping plane, also from LN. I know they are not easy to use but would like to try one.I've got one... And yes, they are a pain to setup and use... and get used rarely -- so it's a bit of dead cash sitting in the till -- sort of like my BUJ... On the other hand, a well-tuned scraper plane can save the day... I'll be using it this weekend (the LN-185 cabinet maker's scraper): I'm making a new saw till and the case work is all White Birdseye Hard Maple... I've got to fettle intersection of the case sides and shelves -- all cross grain and all Birdseye... I wouldn't even think to attempt this with a standard bench plane... I may take the time to sharpen my LN/BU/Smoother and give it a whirl first.... If I'm willing to take the time to sharpen, it shows how much I don't like the scraping plane... But I'd bet the scraping plane will get some use... White Birdseye can be a bear... BTW: I used to own all three of LN's scraper planes... Now I just use the 185... I found the large and small just sat in the till and never got used... However, most recommend that if you get just one, it would be the large... Like the 4 1/2, I found the large just too much work to push, but YMMV. Edited August 25, 2015 by hhh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 You guys are making me very glad I posed the question. Lots of very good information on this page! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 ==>4-1/2 which has a Middle PitchMust get some workout pushing that beast... Especially if you’ve got it in bronze...With regard the scraping plane ...They leave a coarser finish than a smoother. The edge does not last long. Unless you are planing seriously interlocked grain, they are overkill and, even then, I get a total better performance from either a high angled BU plane of a BD plane with a closely set chipbreaker. Of course, if you just want a scraping plane, then get one.Regards from PerthDerek Well I do a lot of card scraping on non figured woods. Wouldn't a scraping plane serve a similar purpose? Of course, I may be wrong.No. A cabinet (card) scraper is a flexible tool. You can use it on small sections, or large. You can alter the cutting angle as you work. As the edge dulls, you can flip the card around to a fresh side (each has 4 sides - excluding the edges).I have scraped large areas with a cabinet scraper. Used below, it worked interlocked Jarrah, and was used to stop short of the dovetails ..Regards from PerthDerek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 ==>4-1/2 which has a Middle PitchMust get some workout pushing that beast... Especially if you’ve got it in bronze...Mine isn't bronze but it is a beast. Weighs at least as much as a #5 if not more...at least it feels that way.I have it set for a super-fine shaving with a super-sharp blade. A waxed sole and skewed approach make it less tiresome than it otherwise would be. And I don't use it to level table tops. I usually break out the #80 for that kind of thing. My 4-1/2 is reserved for figured wood and exotics that refuse to yield to a #4 without tearout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted August 25, 2015 Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 Indeed Derek. I'm aware how a cabinet or card scraper works. I was just wondering if a scraping plane would achieve the same result (on flat surfaces) than a cabinet scraper, with less effort. But apparently that's not true, so I will skip that plane completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'd pretty much go with Derek, #4 or #3 Bevel Down plane, vintage Stanley, LN, Veritas, whatever floats your boat. The cap iron/chipbreaker method is pretty easy to learn and worth taking the time over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nub Thumb Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 I think the question has been well covered, but I'll throw in a bit more. To me, the first consideration when choosing is what kind of projects will it be used for? Large, small, wide, etc. I tend to be all over the place. I don't have a 4 1/2 (yet). I do have a Stanley 4, 3, and 2. I bought the two more just because it was a good deal and it's somewhat collectable. I use it a lot! It's a fantastic tool. Bigger isn't always better. The 3 and one of my 4s have pm-v11 blades. The 2 and my other 4 have original Stanley's. I have a LN 5 and 7 that I love and I'm sure the smoothers are amazing as well, but I don't feel like I've been held back at all by the older Stanley's, upgraded blades or original. I say that to say you could get a Stanley 3, 4 and 4 1/2 for now and when you see what your preferred size is, spring for the more expensive plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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