TerryMcK Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 As well as being a woodworker I also am an amateur musician and have been for years. I hear that a judge in LA says Led Zeps Jimmy Page and Robert Plant are to stand trial in a copyright row about Stairway. For non musicians the opening riff from this (in fact the entire tune) has been banned from being playing in guitar stores throughout the entire world (see No Stairway Denied at the bottom). Anyway the trial is about a band called Spirit who wrote an instrumental called Taurus. Apparently the two bands toured together in 1968/1969 and a trustee bringing the litigation on behalf of the late Randy California has suggested the Stairway came about after Zep heard the song being performed by Spirit. Taurus contains a similar descending chromatic four chord progression that is very common in the music industry - I've heard similar progressions in early Renaissance music (1400-1600AD). I've listened to Taurus on Youtube and it is pleasant but to my ears is not "substantially similar", as the US district Judge stated "A jury can find substantial similarity between the first two minutes of Stairway and Taurus". I say Let's Call Saul on Led Zeps behalf to defend this and close the case. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Baloney. It's got the same chord structure, big deal. There are hundreds of songs based on GCD and If you had the time you can pick them apart and hear influences and what you might think are direct rip offs from hundreds of songs using the same chord structure. How Spirit can compare that to one of the greatest rock songs in history is self patronizing and borderline insanity. And yes, playing stairway to heaven in a music store is similar to farting at the Queen of England's dinner table. You just don't do it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gixxerjoe04 Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Seems like a family member of the Spirit is just trying to be a money grubbing whore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I'm sorry there are no emoticons to express my feelings about such lawsuits. I am never disappointed in the ability of the human race to come up with a lawyer, judge and jury of someone's peers to make the most ridiculous decisions (think "Ryobi / Carlos Osorio" tablesaw lawsuit). However, if we didn't all get our day in court I guess that could be worse . . . maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I tihnk there is a difference between similar notes and similar flow and tempo. Being a person that is not a zep fan. I've maybe listened to stairway 3 times in my life i recognized the song instantly from the spirit track. I tihnk the argument will come done to not if they stole it but how much they changed the song when the stole it and if the changes are sufficient enough to be artistic freedom. Why is it such a sin to play it in a music store? It's just a song, who gives a rats behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Definitely hear where the riff came from. I expect there will be a settlement, and no one will be any worse off for it. I like the Zep version of it better. I remember when I was first learning to play it, that it was so much different than any other rock that I had learned to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: I tihnk there is a difference between similar notes and similar flow and tempo. Being a person that is not a zep fan. I've maybe listened to stairway 3 times in my life i recognized the song instantly from the spirit track. I tihnk the argument will come done to not if they stole it but how much they changed the song when the stole it and if the changes are sufficient enough to be artistic freedom. Why is it such a sin to play it in a music store? It's just a song, who gives a rats behind. No one owns the notes of guitar. There are twelve tones in western music. Every song shares those twelve tones. So an argument can be made that as soon as I pluck a string I copied someone. How many notes in a row out of those 12 is considered stealing? If this were the case, Guns and Roses stole from John Fogerty, Alice Cooper stole from John Lennon....the list goes on and on. This should get laughed out of court. It is a sin to play SWTH in a music store because for years it was. It was butchered by every teenage kid that wanted to learn how to play guitar to the point of being sickening. You couldn't walk into a music store without hearing some kid screw it up. So one day, some smart musician said "If I hear you screw up the greatest rock song ever in here again, I'm gonna hurt you so bad you'll never play again." Now it's just a known fact you will be shunned and ridiculed...no matter how well you play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby W Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: Why is it such a sin to play it in a music store? It's just a song, who gives a rats behind. It is banned because the people in the store are tired of hearing it. Same with about a dozen other songs. Imagine having to listen to them played over and over and over....... badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Janello said: No one owns the notes of guitar. There are twelve tones in western music. Every song shares those twelve tones. So an arguement can be made that as soon as I pluck a string I copied someone. How many notes in a row out of those 12 is considered stealing? If this were the case, guns and roses stole from John Fogerty, Alice Cooper stole from John Lennon....the list goes on and on. This should get laughed out of court. It is a sin to play SWTH in a music store because for years it was. It was butchered by every teenage kid that wanted to learn how to play guitar to the point of being sickening. You couldn't walk into a music store without hearing some kid screw it up. So one day, some smart musician said "If I hear you screw up the greatest rock song ever in here again, I'm gonna hurt you so bad you'll never play again." Now it's just a known fact you will be shunned and ridiculed...no matter how well you play it. There is a lot more to a song than just the notes played in an order. How they are played the rests between them. By your argument no one should be able to own anything because all the words of the English language are public domain there for anything written with them should therefore be public domain. Try and convince the movie industry of that one. Also all digital content is 1s and 0s there for any program ever written is public domain as well. Battle apple with that one. Their arrangement and the spacing between those letters and 1s and 0s matters, in fact it matters a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 This is just a small example. She missed the other 400 songs that use that same chord structure and even use individual note picking that are one and the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 I think Randy California should be sued for stealing a states name. Randy California, born Randy Craig Wolfe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 26 minutes ago, Janello said: This is just a small example. She missed the other 400 songs that use that same chord structure and even use individual note picking that are one and the same. I mean we could trace all music back to cavemen if we wanted. Here is one for country music. I got it i get your arrangement and fully agree all music is based off the same stuff but there is a line and a difference. Just like when you contacted hitzman over the table you replicated is it the same no but it's VERY close. The court decides how close it is and if it's too close they award copyright infringement. If you want absurd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You#Copyright_status was copy written and could technically only ever be reproduced if royalties were paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Mike. said: Generally speaking, country isn't music. There are some exceptions but all those guys are dead. You and I could be good friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 1) Certainly similar enough to warrant examination. Trials do not always get it wrong, wait and see. 2) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 General copyright and plagiarism are different animals. I haven't researched about this particular topic, or listened to the songs (sorry no speakers here), but if they listened to music from another musician and presented it as its own, then it is plagiarism. It doesn't matter if they introduced a few changes here and there, or just copied the introduction. It's about the fact that they attributed to themselves the work from another musician, to which they had access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 This is not supported by current law practice. The only reason this is going to court is because they re-recorded it. If they had sampled the original recording, they could have been cleared by the short length of identical material. Sampling law only requires you stay within a limit of seconds in time sampled. This is the demon that hip-hop turntables brought us. In sampling, you are not considered to have pilfered enough material to cause an infringement. What makes the Vanilla Ice thing so ironic is that the three seconds he pilfered is repeated as the groove in both settings. Did he "arrange" a three second imitation or a three minute imitation? This will be an interesting one to watch. Copyright courts do not often get it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 Just reading through this. There are tons of songs that sound similar. I've been playing guitar/bass since I was 7. I cannot count the times I came across a cool riff only to be told it was something else. The Taurus thing isn't new.. Perhaps the lawsuit is bringing it more attention... Does anyone else remember the time Cold Play ripped off Joe Satriani? Nobody does. Re: Pachelbel - Classic tunes have been ripped off since day one. Rip off some old dead white guys with powdered wigs, and nobody cares. If you want to rip of some newer band, just change the key or tempo slightly. Hootie and the Blowfish have publicly stated they compiled thousands of songs when they wrote their breakthrough album. They took the essence of them in order to see what people liked about them, and boom... success... Those of us that play an instrument hear it more frequently than non players. When we learn a song, we instantly learn 500 more. Just the way it goes. Now did Wilson Picket get ripped off by the Fabulous Thunderbirds?? Don't forget about ol Peter Gunn.... Anyway... This could go on forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 26 minutes ago, Acer Cletus said: no one listens to Satriani Which makes it ok to rip him off... There is alot of truth to that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted April 12, 2016 Report Share Posted April 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Robby W said: It is banned because the people in the store are tired of hearing it. Same with about a dozen other songs. Yup - i worked at a music shop for a few years. We had a list, and stairway was not at the top - sandman was. If I had to hear one more teenager play it poorly, I would have lost it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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