Andy Wright Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I have a 30"x60" pine bench made from construction lumber that has been in service for 15 years. I have flattened it once since it was built and for my purposes it has worked fine. It cost about $200 to build 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capwn Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Keep in mind someone like Chris Schwartz have the skills and time to re-flatten their tops or build a new bench at any time. For a hobby person you want to build this beast once and be done with it. True, but I have a hard time believing he would make a poor bench under the auspice of "meh, I'll just build another one" nor produce a series of books on workbench designs and suggest using SYP with the intent of misleading hobbyists into some type of Faustian deal of building a cheap workbench that requires constant upkeep.I will say that if you are going to "go hard" then "go hard or go home" and go with hard maple for the reasons Eric listed. You get a denser wood that is likely comparable in price and no kicking yourself later because it was 15 cents a board foot more.Maybe, maybe not. Depends on region I guess.Anyway, I'll challenge you to give me one advantage of using a softwood over a hardwood aside from cost.Just to be fair, that applies to almost everything. Price dictates quite a bit, otherwise I would be led to believe we would all have full suites of LN hand tools and Festool power tools. Everyone's budget differs widely; from those just out of college, to those making over six figures, and that often dictates a budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Maybe, maybe not. Depends on region I guess.Anyway, I'll challenge you to give me one advantage of using a softwood over a hardwood aside from cost.You don't have to worry about denting or scratching your workbench because it's cheap wood and also easy to sand or plane back to new condition. You can focus on your piece, give a damn about the workbench top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Well if budget is dictating things then I say build whatever you can afford. But OP mentioned Benchcrafted hardware which pretty much implies budget is not a big factor. Putting BC hardware on a pine bench is a silk hat on a pig.I'll admit...I never read the Schwarz workbench books or much of anything else he writes because nailing pine together isn't really my thing. I like the guy but our styles just don't jibe. So he may have some great arguments about why they used softwoods for benches in the past...I'll just assume it was either because it's what they had readily available or because softwoods are so much easier to work with hand tools. We have machines now which makes the latter almost entirely moot.But I'm totally open to hearing what advantages softwoods offer. I just don't think there really are any. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Maybe, maybe not. Depends on region I guess.Anyway, I'll challenge you to give me one advantage of using a softwood over a hardwood aside from cost.Availability. haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Availability. hahaAgain, regional. I can get hardwood easiest than quality dementions non constriction grade lumber. If you're comparing box store lumber to dealer available hardwoods, that is an unfair comparison as one is wood suitable for building and one barely for burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdbot Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I'm done with my tops and have a good start on the base now. I will tell you while it's a fun project, I never want to build this again. You are working with huge pieces, plunging router bits deeper than you will ever again, and one screw up can causes weeks of hard work to go bye-bye. Estimate how long you think it will take then multiply by four. That will give you a real-world estimate. Not that it's a hard build - it's just a lot of hard labor. I hear that. I'm currently towards the end (hopefully) of building two interior sliding doors out of 8/4 cherry, with 2.5" deep mortises and loose tenons (and I don't have a Domino), and I just went over the 3 month mark. And this was supposed to be a "practice" project to get my confidence up for the bench and the gaming table build. But OP mentioned Benchcrafted hardware which pretty much implies budget is not a big factor. Putting BC hardware on a pine bench is a silk hat on a pig.HA, you have me dead to rights there! I think that pretty much made the decision for me.Budget is still a factor, but in my situation, going cheaper means I can start on the bench next month (or whenever I finish aforementioned doors), versus a couple months down the road when I've saved that much extra for the hard maple top. Though at the rate I'm going with the doors and with the upcoming holiday, it may be a couple months into next year anyway! I got started in woodworking a few years ago with much tighter budget constraints than I have now, but I guess old habits die hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Again, regional. I can get hardwood easiest than quality dementions non constriction grade lumber. If you're comparing box store lumber to dealer available hardwoods, that is an unfair comparison as one is wood suitable for building and one barely for burning. I agree, completely regional. My area is just devoid of a good source of hardwoods. If they were available I would have likely used something else. Although at the time I started this project I think I was unemployed/ self employed so I may not have had the money to go with hardwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Where is this place you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I'm now in Springville CA, I'd have to drive to Fresno to get to the closest legitimate lumber yard. About an hour and a half drive or so, so add in fuel and time and wood gets pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I'm now in Springville CA, I'd have to drive to Fresno to get to the closest legitimate lumber yard. About an hour and a half drive or so, so add in fuel and time and wood gets pricey. That sucks because you're not really all that far from some great trees...but yeah every hour adds up. If it were me I'd plan on going once a year to stock up or something with a rented truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Yeah that's unfortunate. Sounds like you need to make bulk buys * )If it makes you feel any better, I choose to drive an hour and fifteen minutes passing 4 decent yards to get to a great one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I've been thinking about making a order from Bell Forest just to get some cool stuff to play with. But yeah, the mountains are beautiful around me, but they are all softwoods and oak. Yeah that's unfortunate. Sounds like you need to make bulk buys * )If it makes you feel any better, I choose to drive an hour and fifteen minutes passing 4 decent yards to get to a great one. Yeah, but you only traveled 20 miles. ahahah. I used to live in Azusa and work in Irvine. Traffic, that I do not miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Yeah pretty much but on the other hand, Azusa has everything from A to Z in the USA, except a quality hardwood dealer, because the rockler doesn't count. Clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I read an article by Schwarz about a month ago and it was about a knock down Nicholson bench. If I remember right he made that bench out of Southern Yellow Pine because the premise of the article was building a decent work bench that you could knock down and store if you had to and also about building on tight budget hence the SYP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG-Canada Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 If I build a roubo or similar workbench I'm pretty sure I'll use Ash. It's hard, readily available (at least for me) - I recently bought 10/4 ash (8-9" wide) for just around $2/bf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Budget is still a factor, but in my situation, going cheaper means I can start on the bench next month (or whenever I finish aforementioned doors), versus a couple months down the road when I've saved that much extra for the hard maple top. Though at the rate I'm going with the doors and with the upcoming holiday, it may be a couple months into next year anyway! I think it's the right decision. IMO it's always best to do whatever you're doing the right way even if it takes considerably longer, rather than taking shortcuts and having regret. Especially when it comes to something you're planning to use for the rest of your life. The rest of your life is a very long time...What does it matter to ya? When you got a job to do you got to do it well. -McCartney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I think it's the right decision. IMO it's always best to do whatever you're doing the right way even if it takes considerably longer, rather than taking shortcuts and having regret. Especially when it comes to something you're planning to use for the rest of your life. The rest of your life is a very long time...What does it matter to ya? When you got a job to do you got to do it well. -McCartney John Wooden had a quote that I have always thought was appropriate to the way I like to go about wood working... and other things-"if you don't have the time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 The rest of your life is a very long time... You never know.Anyways, I don't think building a workbench out of soft woods is the "wrong" choice... and I already stated my reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dknapp34 Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Built my roubo out of hickory. It's hard as hell and heavy as hell. Never wished I had used a softer wood. That said, don't use hickory, it's a miserable wood to work with. I second the ash suggestion. I's hard, heavy and, depending on where you are, cheap. All three are good characteristics in a workbench, in my opinion. But again -- and I can't stress this enough -- don't use hickory. Unless you are smoking a pig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkface42one Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 (edited) Another suggestion that is almost up there in terms of hardness with hard maple but can sometimes be cheaper depending on location is ash. That's what I'm building my roubo out of (along with some walnut accents). Where I'm at, the ash was slightly cheaper than the maple and I already had some stock on hand so didn't have to buy as much. It made my decision pretty easy to make in the end. Photo included just for fun since I don't think I've shown it off yet. Working on the leg vise installation right now. Edited December 10, 2015 by jerkface42one Fix Image 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I always hear it said that "the bench should be soft enough to not damage your work pieces". Who the heck is throwing your projects on your bench? After lumber goes through the second round of milling, stop playing catch with it. You have a greater chance of dropping your project on the floor anyways based on sheer sqft of a bench to a shop floor.Wood is run over table saws and router tables all the time. Those are hard surfaces, I've never heard someone say they use a fir router table top.Quit throwing your projects people and build a hard bench top.I can't believe I'm agreeing with you again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdbot Posted December 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 If I build a roubo or similar workbench I'm pretty sure I'll use Ash. It's hard, readily available (at least for me) - I recently bought 10/4 ash (8-9" wide) for just around $2/bfWow, that's amazing! If I could get hardwood (that's suitable for a bench) at $2/bf, I wouldn't have even started this thread Where I'm at (Tucson), the cheapest supplier in town that I know of has 8/4 hard maple (rough) for about $4/bf , which is cheaper than my usual place. I didn't get their price for ash, but from their product listing, they only have 4/4 ash.Built my roubo out of hickory. It's hard as hell and heavy as hell. Never wished I had used a softer wood. That said, don't use hickory, it's a miserable wood to work with. I second the ash suggestion. I's hard, heavy and, depending on where you are, cheap. All three are good characteristics in a workbench, in my opinion. But again -- and I can't stress this enough -- don't use hickory. Unless you are smoking a pig. I've built a few things with hickory as well, I know what you mean. I've also made quite a few cutting boards with jatoba and mesquite. Despite how hard it is to work with, I love the look of jatoba in cutting boards so much that I keep putting it in my cutting boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 I can't believe I'm agreeing with you again!i dont know if it's the impending retirement or what but something just ain't right with you these days. . Your brains going to mush my man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerdbot Posted December 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 So out of curiosity, I took a look at some of the online hardwood suppliers, and I noticed Bell Forest has 8/4 "1 Com, #1 and 2 White" hard maple volume priced for $3.10/bf. All the local suppliers near me I believe are "select or better", so I don't think I've actually seen what #1 common hardwood looks like. I know it's a lower grade, but would it still be a suitable option for the benchtop since I can stabilize any knots with epoxy and hide them in the glue up? Even with shipping, the #1 common 8/4 would be cheaper than anything I could get locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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