Sharpening Sink

[Tom King]

Only the fifth rainy day this Summer today, and I didn't have anything else to do but work in the shop this morning.

I forget when I bought this sink top off CL, but it's been some years.  It's an odd size at 92" long, but works out pretty good.

I built a cabinet for the base back when Home Depot first started selling Chinese 3/4 plywood.  That plywood started molding about 6 months later, and even saturating it with Clorox Cleanup didn't keep it down.  We took that cabinet and the leftovers of plywood out in the yard and burned them.

It sat on sawhorses in an old house I had been working on for over three years while I had to look after my Mom and couldn't leave home.  When we were working on the old houses, we did a LOT of sharpening.

It's now in the shop here at home.  I stuck together the beginnings of a new cabinet under it enough to sit the top on it and get it going again.  I cut one of the shelves built into that building for clearance, but didn't want to cut the other higher up one, so I'm waiting on a shorter riser for the wash down hose.  I can't use the faucet with the double swivel spout until I get the hose hooked up to that faucet, but it is all hooked up otherwise, and ready to go.

An 85 pound 18x24" Granite surface plate goes to the right of the grinder, but I think the weight would be too much until I build more of the cabinet under it to distribute the weight.

I used to have a Tormek, but sold it soon after I bought a CBN wheel, but later discovered the CBN wheel made more of a mess than I first realized it did, and stopped using it in the old houses.  I'm waiting for a Tormek with a reverse, but in the meantime spent $135 to gamble on the Wen, and I can get by fine with it.

The washdown hose that I had before was 44" long, and I couldn't reach into the corners with it, so I have a 60" hose for it now.

The plan is to build a 20" tall backsplash with shelves around the top.  Stones are in Bamboo pot lid racks.   I never found "stainless steel" ones that didn't rust.  Most of the stones came from Stu Tierney when he was running Tools from Japan.  I use them under a stream of running water-no soaking time needed.

 The two small surface plates next to the sink bowl have 140 and 400  4x8 Atoma diamond plate replacement tops on one, and Diamond Lapping Film on the other.  I got tired of buying flattening stones that weren't flat.  Woodcraft used to put these 9x12 surface plates on sale a couple of times a year. Stu got his Sister to pick up the replacement sheets when she was going to the town that had them anyway.

When it was in the old houses, it got used for washing hands, and paint brushes, and was a very handy thing to have.  No trap, it just drains out to the ground surface outside so there is no sewer gas to worry about.  I forget the size of the little water heater, but it's something like 2-1/2 gallons.

 

[gee-dub]

Awesome rig Tom.

[Tom King]

The spring for the hose is one we had leftover that came with the faucet we use in the dogroom sink.  I didn't have one on the other hose, and it was a bit of a bother to find just the right place to put it down.  I happened to run across the spring doing something else, and decided to use it.  

The faucet that the hose will attach to came on another stainless steel sink I bought off CL.  It was four feet wide with a larger, deeper sink bowl, and was never big enough and sink bigger than I needed.  I was headed to the dump with that, thinking that no one would want it without the faucet, and stopped by a local restaurant that was just under construction.  I asked them if they wanted it, and they took it out of the back of the pickup.

Here's the sink in the dogroom.  A friend that used to do photography gave us this sink.

I'll post another picture when I get it all going, and maybe even make a video, but who knows when I will ever have time to finish the cabinet.

Those commercial faucets are completely and easily rebuildable.  I know of two companies-T & S  and  Fisher.  I have no preference for one over the other.  Just by chance we ended up with Fishers on both the dogroom sink and this one.  We do like the T & S spray heads better, but everything else is not interchangable.

 

[Tom King]

I decided I'd catch up on some past due sharpening this morning, and since I can't use the middle faucet yet I would just use the one that came with the sink over the bowl.  I had used that one before, but it's been several years.  At first, some dirty water came out but then it cleared up.  I put a stone on the bridge and went to move the spout a little bit, and it came off in my hand.

That spout never was the best shape and length anyway, and the brand of faucet is not even listed on the internet, so I took the opportunity to order a whole new faucet with a spout just like I wanted.

So back to waiting before I can use it.

The lady I bought the sink from had it sitting out in her back yard.  She said it came out of a hospital where she worked.  The regular steel supports under it are pretty rusted, but the built in wooden reinforcement under the front is not rotten.  I'm just going to make a whole cabinet insert to slide in the carcass I have built for it now, and not worry about the rusty parts.  I bought it pretty cheap, so can't complain.  The faucet I just ordered will be the most expensive thing about it.

 

[DerekMPBS]

I'm jealous - I'd love to have a sink like that in my garage.  We are in the beginning stages of planning a kitchen expansion/remodel, and the kitchen shares a wall with the garage, so maybe I can find a way to extend plumbing and DWV to the common wall for a garage sink.  Hmm....now you have me really thinking!

[Tom King]

I have another sink here in another shed for filling pump spray tanks.  It's just a cheap plastic utility sink.  No need for DWV tie in.  These drain pipes just go through the wall.  In a prior shop, that a tornado destroyed, the shop sink emptied into an Azalea bush so the pipe wasn't even seen.

All these sinks are just fed by a hose from a hydrant.  I would tie one into a house water system if one was available, but if you can get by with it, I don't even have traps on these sinks because there is no sewer gas to worry about.

I scoured CL for a long time looking for cheap stainless sinks.  I drove a couple of hours one way to get this one after the last one proved to be too small.  That was by far the longest distance I ever went for a CL purchase.  Most of the time they want a lot of money for them, but occasionally someone just wanted one out of their yard and sold them cheap, like this one.

[Tom King]

The new faucet came this morning.  I had to cut the old one to get it off.  Polished up with the little 12V polisher using rubbing compound and #2 polishing compound.  Looks like a new one.  Those are reflections, not scuff marks.  

It's just what I wanted over the stone bridge.  Not too high to splash, but high enough to stay out of the way.

 

[Tom King]

I finished the final hookup this morning, and sharpened a couple of chisels to see how the new faucet works.  Just like I wanted it to.  You only need the tiniest stream of water.  I don't like to reuse dirty water, and there is no worry of wasting water here.  It's pumped out of the ground, and runs back in the ground.  No need to have to think about soaking stones either.

I wanted a cutoff inside the wall, and liked the splitter with ball valves so much that I checked to see if they made singles.  Not only do they also make singles, but 90 and 45 degree bends as well.

 

[Coop]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:01 PM, Tom King said:

 

I scoured CL for a long time looking for cheap stainless sinks.  I drove a couple of hours one way to get this one after the last one proved to be too small.  That was by far the longest distance I ever went for a CL purchase.  Most of the time they want a lot of money for them, but occasionally someone just wanted one out of their yard and sold them cheap, like this one.

You might want to visit a couple of scrap metal yards in your area and leave your name and number. My neighbor bought a commercial, two sink with s/s legs for under a hundred. 

[Tom King]

I'm good now.  Pretty sure I will never need another one.  I found plenty of the multiple sink ones that seem to be most popular in restaurants.  I was specifically looking for one with a smallish sink on one end, and a long drainboard totaling about 8' long.  Most of those commercial sinks have big, deep sink basins like the first one I had that really took more room than it was worth for my use.  It was 4' wide, which I thought would work out, but the drainboard was smaller than the sink bowl.   This one is 92" with a more useful sized sink, and seems to be just right.

I can't remember what I paid for this one, but I'm pretty sure it was less than a hundred bucks.  The trip was the main cost, but I had looked a long time around here for it.

[Tom King]

Burned another morning on it today.  The long hose was going to be in the way with the short riser, so I put it on a longer riser.  This meant the shelf above had to go.  At least I was able to throw away probably half of the stuff that was on that part of the shelf, an put everything else to decide about later on a table set up to hold it.  This is taking longer than I wanted to put in it, but I'm determined now to get it like I want it.

The new faucet has a problem, and I just sent a bunch of pictures to the person at that company.  One company bought out another faucet manufacturer, and they're trying to use parts from two different types.  The spout won't stay in it...........

This building has a really strange construction.  I didn't build it, but I'm getting good use out of it.

One thing leads to another.  With that longer riser, I'm worried about the torque against the faucet base, so I ordered this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ADPE2XS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I was planning to build a backsplash surround around it with some shelves, but I need to put new arbor bearings in the old Powermatic 62 table saw before it's good enough for precise work.  I've been wanting to get that going good again anyway, so that will be up shortly.

 

[Pwhite]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:28 PM, Tom King said:

Burned another morning on it today.  The long hose was going to be in the way with the short riser, so I put it on a longer riser.  This meant the shelf above had to go.  At least I was able to throw away probably half of the stuff that was on that part of the shelf, an put everything else to decide about later on a table set up to hold it.  This is taking longer than I wanted to put in it, but I'm determined now to get it like I want it.

The new faucet has a problem, and I just sent a bunch of pictures to the person at that company.  One company bought out another faucet manufacturer, and they're trying to use parts from two different types.  The spout won't stay in it...........

This building has a really strange construction.  I didn't build it, but I'm getting good use out of it.

One thing leads to another.  With that longer riser, I'm worried about the torque against the faucet base, so I ordered this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ADPE2XS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I was planning to build a backsplash surround around it with some shelves, but I need to put new arbor bearings in the old Powermatic 62 table saw before it's good enough for precise work.  I've been wanting to get that going good again anyway, so that will be up shortly.

 

You are planning about good detailing. 

Also you did nice detailing till this photo is captured!

[gee-dub]

On 8/18/2023 at 10:28 AM, Tom King said:

This is taking longer than I wanted to put in it, but I'm determined now to get it like I want it.

This is the key for me.  I am always happier in the long run if I put out the extra effort to get things like I want them.  Then I can just use them over and over again without having to fiddle with stuff every time.  It is coming right along.

[Tom King]

I used to just use the double swing spout over a stone on the drainboard, but the sink bridge popped up on Amazon, so I ordered it to try.  At first, I thought it would be too flimsy, but it works fine.  We used to just use the sink for washing hands, paint brushes, and such.  The double spout reaches to the water trough on the wet grinder.  

The new woodworking shop will have to wait on the to-do list behind another long list of items, but I needed to use it, so set it up in the mechanic shop.  I wonder how many people park a 70hp tractor beside their sharpening sink.

 

 

[Coop]

Tom, are y’all on a septic tank system? 

[Tom King]

Yes, but this just dumps out on top of the ground outside that shop.  No trap needed.  There is no city sewer anywhere in this county. 

[Chestnut]

Are the metal filings and grit from the stones hard on septic systems? Never lived in a house with a septic system. Oddly i know a lot about how they technically operate but nothing about their real life operation.

[Tom King]

I can't believe there would be enough to matter, even if this went into a septic tank.  Again, this is just a pipe that sticks through the wall.  Nothing like as much as goes on top of the ground for something like washing a car.  It might take a pint of water to sharpen a chisel.

A septic tank typically is a thousand gallon tank.  Any residue from sharpening couldn't possibly be enough to matter.

When I had this, or other sinks set up on the old houses I worked on, the drain went out onto a pile of sawdust, mainly to filter residue from paint brush cleaning.  Sharpening residue is not a worry.

[Tpt life]

Iron oxidizes very quickly in septic stews. There are some bacteria that love it. I cannot imagine that ever being an issue. 

[Mark J]

Isn't some of the sharpening residue going to be stone dust?  

[Tom King]

It's still such a small amount that it couldn't possibly hurt anything.  Even if you ground up all the stones into dust, it wouldn't amount to much.

I posted a sharpening video years ago when I was set up at the kitchen sink in the basement of one of the old museum houses I was working in.  There was much waling and gnashing of teeth about wasting water and stopping up the plumbing.  Just for curiosity, when I moved out of that house I pulled off the PVC trap under that sink and it was as clean as a new one inside.

Septic tank systems are not nearly as fragile as a lot of people who haven't lived with one think.   The one in this house is 43 years old.  We had it pumped out once when there was a problem, but the tank didn't really need pumping.  Someone had flushed a plastic grocery bag with leaves in it, and it stopped the outlet in the distribution box.  Probably from one of our city visitors cleaning up behind their dog.

I don't think I've eroded even a total of an ounce off of those stones in years of pretty heavy use.  Why do people think this is any kind of problem?  The little bit running out on top of the ground here can't possibly hurt anything.  

[JohnG]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:55 AM, Tom King said:

Septic tank systems are not nearly as fragile as a lot of people who haven't lived with one think.   The one in this house is 43 years old.  We had it pumped out once when there was a problem, but the tank didn't really need pumping.  Someone had flushed a plastic grocery bag with leaves in it, and it stopped the outlet in the distribution box.  Probably from one of our city visitors cleaning up behind their dog.

I don't think I've eroded even a total of an ounce off of those stones in years of pretty heavy use.  Why do people think this is any kind of problem?  The little bit running out on top of the ground here can't possibly hurt anything.  

There is a lot of internet “information” that makes it sound like any small thing can ruin/clog up a septic system. When we were buying our house, I started to get worried about the septic system. The original owners had never pumped the system in their ~28 years here and when we had it pumped/inspected during the buying process, it wasn’t full and had no issues. And they had raised 2 kids here. As with our well, I have found that these systems are not as finicky as they are made out to be. 

[Mark J]

1 hour ago, Tom King said:

Even if you ground up all the stones into dust, it wouldn't amount to much.

 

1 hour ago, Tom King said:

don't think I've eroded even a total of an ounce off of those stones in years of pretty heavy use.  Why do people think this is any kind of problem?

Good point, Tom. 

I'm thinking more about my ejector pit, than an actual septic tank, but it still may not be that much of an issue.

[Tom King]

Our original septic tank called for 900 sq. ft. of drain field according to the county health department.  We didn't have any problem until the very large Oak trees surrounding our house decided they liked the drain lines.  One huge Pin Oak completely filled up the lines with very large roots.  I think that was after 33 years.  Several people suggested we take down some of those trees for various reasons when we built the house, but we have never wanted to.  The shade is wonderful in Summer.

I installed a new 2700 sq. ft. drain field out in the pasture beside our house, simply because there was room for that much with two very long lines using panels.  I don't know how many thousands of gallons they can hold, but more than a few.   I also left the distribution box close to the surface right inside the fence so it could be accessed easily if ever needed.  Haven't thought about it since.