collinb Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 My planing fence that is. Also learned a lot as I put it to use. I abandoned the idea of a channel and instead opted for a wide side support for the plane. The width of one's vise determines the size of wood that might be planed. I will have to make blocks for the top of the workmate to accommodate wider pieces. It is also not a practical solution for removing large volumes of material. That's better suited to the band saw and table saw. But it is quote quick for doing pieces up to 3 ft long. Maybe longer after I add blocks to the workmate. Best of all of the piece comes out square the first time thanks to the fence. No need to check down the piece multiple times and make multiple passes. In this instance it is faster then the simple manual method but is itself merely a variation by adding the block fence. In conclusion it is not the solution I had intended but it works well for specific tasks and might seem a better approach for working with modest sized pieces. If one has no jointer this method might be helpful. (Thought experiments are a hobby of mine.) Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Nice, Colin. Thought furniture is a hobby of mine, lately. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 But the 2 faces in the 3rd photo are clearly not square. There is a gap towards the right end of the square ruler. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I can't determine what you actually did. I don't see anything resembling what you started with. I see a few sticks on a work surface then a not flat across the face stick with a square on it. Can you unconfusethis at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 There must be twine in this post somewhere... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 But the 2 faces in the 3rd photo are clearly not square. There is a gap towards the right end of the square ruler. More a problem with how I am trying to hold the square and take a picture. Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk I can't determine what you actually did. I don't see anything resembling what you started with. I see a few sticks on a work surface then a not flat across the face stick with a square on it. Can you unconfusethis at all? I made two blocks that fit the vise of the workmate. They hold a board in between (1st pic). The goal is to mount them so that the two surfaces are flat across. Then the plane gains two reference edges. Because of their width the outer portion remains flat even the inner portion may get planed with the held piece. Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 3 hours ago, collinb said: I made two blocks that fit the vise of the workmate. They hold a board in between (1st pic). The goal is to mount them so that the two surfaces are flat across. Then the plane gains two reference edges. Because of their width the outer portion remains flat even the inner portion may get planed with the held piece. That seems like a really hard & complicated way to accomplish the task. True story. In grade 7 woodshop, one of the first things taught was how to plane the edge of a board straight & square. I have no stereoscopic vision, and very poor hand/eye coordination, but with in the 1st period I, along with the rest of the class had that skill mastered. The point of that gripping tale is that it's an easy task to learn. Just put the board in the vice & practice with the plane. Before you know it, you'll be jointing boards like a pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I have watched multiple pros on various shows and videos. They all, without exception, have to check and recheck 2-3 times per board. Now, if a person can do it first time with out rechecking followed by more cutting that would be something. I did this precisely because the seasoned pros do not seem to be winning. They're repeating an old process, though reliable, takes more time than it seemingly ought. We use fences for almost everything else, why not this? Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, collinb said: I have watched multiple pros on various shows and videos. They all, without exception, have to check and recheck 2-3 times per board. Now, if a person can do it first time with out rechecking followed by more cutting that would be something. I did this precisely because the seasoned pros do not seem to be winning. They're repeating an old process, though reliable, takes more time than it seemingly ought. We use fences for almost everything else, why not this? Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Yes! You do have to check multiple times for square. But I will guarantee you, that's so much faster than futzing around with sticks & fences & all that other junk. And if your jointing 2 boards for glue up, you don't even have to make them square. Anywhere near approximate is close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted May 17, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Oh the ego. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 25 minutes ago, drzaius said: ... And if your jointing 2 boards for glue up, you don't even have to make them square. Anywhere near approximate is close enough. I've wondered about that. A few weeks ago watching Rough Cut, Tommy Mac(Donald) was joining to boards but wanted to use just one clamp. So he took some extra out of the middle of one and then proceeded to glue and clamp the two. I don't recall what the called the procedure. Looked odd to me given how boards move with humidity. Things like that make me wonder. There may be a better way to state it, but it seems an appropriate educational question: Where and how much imprecision is allowed? 6 minutes ago, Eric. said: Oh the ego. On mindlessly repeating past practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 22 minutes ago, collinb said: So he took some extra out of the middle of one and then proceeded to glue and clamp the two. I don't recall what the called the procedure. Spring joint... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 24 minutes ago, collinb said: On mindlessly repeating past practices. I'm all for innovation. What you're doing is not innovating, you're banging your head against a wall. There's a reason this jig is not used by anyone anywhere...it's because you've come up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If you're gonna do that you'll have to at least make it anodized red aluminum and sell it for $349.99. Seriously, woodworkers have been using hand planes for hundreds (thousands?) of years...you have to ask yourself why your idea is not in use. Besides, there are already two better alternatives to not being able to freehand a square edge, and here they are... http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=41716&cat=1,41182 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 48 minutes ago, collinb said: Where and how much imprecision is allowed? None. And everything from there going south is what you can live with and still be proud of. Or if you have no pride, anything goes. As for your jig, a better baseball analogy would be, you're swinging at the ball with three bats, because you think you have a better chance of hitting it. When you learn to hit the ball with 1 bat, you then realise the other two were always just getting in your way, and you are now more proficient at hitting the ball. The other two bats you bought to this game are doing nothing but slowing down your swing. And because every pitch isn't the same, your actually making your hits less accurate By the way, speaking for myself. I shoot for perfection every time, because I know somewhere along the line there will be some unforseen discrepencies. Those discrepencies are the ones I can live with because they are usually minor because I started with perfection in mind. Every one of my projects have a flaw, but none were ever a product of my acceptance level from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collinb Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Then I will restate the question: How much error does the process tolerate? Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 hour ago, drzaius said: And if your jointing 2 boards for glue up, you don't even have to make them square. Anywhere near approximate is close enough. ^^^^ Exactly ! Its called match planing. Clamp the two boards together with the edges up that will be joined. Plane them together and voila ! a perfect joint. All this jiggery is overkill. You could have built a Bombe secretary by now with all the time and energy you are putting into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, collinb said: Then I will restate the question: How much error does the process tolerate? Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk If you are talking about edge jointing... a lot! You can get away with ugly gaps and still have a strong joint. It will just look like a 12 year old did it and not a craftsman. Plus you may get bacteria growing on your table top when grannys baked goods are now part of your joinery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 hour ago, collinb said: On mindlessly repeating past practices. Collin, that pink hat does nothing for your complextion, and I thought Eric shaved off the beard? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 31 minutes ago, Janello said: Plus you may get bacteria growing on your table top when grannys baked goods are now part of your joinery. This is the best thing I've read on this forum in the last 6 months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Llama said: This is the best thing I've read on this forum in the last 6 months! If you are adventurous, you can take a ride to Stewarts Root Beer stand on 22 highway in Lebanon NJ. Last week I filled a knot on the picnic table top with chili from my hot dog. You'd be amazed at how much better that table looks now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 The question bashed and not answered does not make for intelligent conversation that will benefit the reader years from now. Collin, the spring joint is going to vary based on the length of the stock and its rigidity under clamping pressure and glue tension. To think it error or a lack of precision is to miss that it is carefully planned and executed. Where tolerances are loose I think is the language you are looking for tolerances are only loose in hidden areas. Glue joints are not typically hidden just to hide them To constantly beat the match planing drum is to ignore some other common instances where a square edge is desired. It only applies to pieces you intend to glue edge to edge. I think you are chasing your tail, but am not entirely certain that the best arguments are being made against or for. Collin, you assume your way faster because of what you see on videos. Consider the thought that they are not working in the most efficient way possible while attempting to film. Also consider that after practice, checking with a square becomes less frequent. They are teaching beginners. Also consider, most of the guys commenting here are not milling edges by hand very often. That is why we buy the yellow thing Eric posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 9 minutes ago, C Shaffer said: The question bashed and not answered does not make for intelligent conversation I guess then my chili knot was really taking it to far. But I honestly don't see where anyone was bashing his question. I thought he meant edge jointing in general..he didn't specify the spring joint was his target question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 2 hours ago, collinb said: I've wondered about that. A few weeks ago watching Rough Cut, Tommy Mac(Donald) was joining to boards but wanted to use just one clamp. So he took some extra out of the middle of one and then proceeded to glue and clamp the two. I don't recall what the called the procedure. Looked odd to me given how boards move with humidity. Things like that make me wonder. There may be a better way to state it, but it seems an appropriate educational question: Where and how much imprecision is allowed? I think you're confusing getting the edge square to the face, and getting the edge straight. My reference was to match planing not requiring the edge to be square with the face. Planing for a spring joint is another matter altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeslayer Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 my only question is for john, how was the chili dog? love a good chili dog and some homemade root beer on a summer day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 31 minutes ago, Janello said: chili knot Pics!!! I need to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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