ChetlovesMer Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 As a power tool junkie for 25 years it has been only very recently that I've begun the transition to hybrid woodworker. One area where I think old school is better, faster and definitely quitter is the jointer. I argue that with a good leg vise on a roubo, jointing with a jointer plane is faster, and quieter with equal results to a 6" jointer. Of course if you have a 12" jointer I can't compete, but for edge jointing the average board, I'll take the roubo/jointer plane combo most every time. This assumes, of course, that you keep your jointer plane sharp. What do you all think? Jointer or Jointer Plane? Which do you use more often? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Ah, you bring up a good point. My jointer plane sits beneath the workbench and at the ready. If I'm working at the workbench I'm already right there. Similarly the Benchcrafted leg vise just requires a simple spin and the board is locked into place. For my planer I have to walk around to the other side of my shop, open the jointer blast gate, close which ever other blast gate(s) is(are) open, figure out where I set down my safety glasses and hearing protection, put those on, click on the cyclone, set the depth of cut on the jointer (usually it's already set), click it on the jointer and run it through. For me, more often than not, one quick spin of the leg vise wheel, a couple passes with the jointer plane, another quick spin of the leg vise wheel (in the other direction this time) and its off to the table saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatBaron Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'll also say that jointing an edge, even a longer one, isn't particularly difficult. On the other hand, I'm watching Paul Sellers flatten & square the faces on a board right now and all I can say is "I'd really rather just run in through a jointer/planer." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Chet I think on a 6" jointer it would be a close run thing. Luckily I have never had to work on a jointer with an bed length of any less than 90" or a cut width of 15" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Not sure about faster, but my vote is for hand jointing. It's not hard, gives great results and the most important thing is you probably should be running a plane over the machined edge anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 No sure about faster, but my vote is for hand jointing. It's not hard, gives great results and the most important thing is you probably should be running a plane over the machined edge anyway. Really depend on the quality of the machine, with the machines I'm lucky to use you the joints are great with no need for hand tools. Hand plane is fun though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Really depend on the quality of the machine, with the machines I'm lucky to use you the joints are great with no need for hand tools. Hand plane is fun though For what I do, I'll stick to hand work. I'd like to take one of those machines for a test drive though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 It depends on how much you have to take off. If a couple of passes of a jointer plane will do it, it's a tossup. If you have to get a half inch bow out of a board, it's a different story, and no contest. . I use a jointer almost every day, even when I'm framing a house. I use a jointer plane when it's the best tool for the job, or I'm working on something at the bench that doesn't need a whole lot of help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 For what I do, I'll stick to hand work. I'd like to take one of those machines for a test drive though! If you ever find yourself in the UK Mel you would be very welcome to call in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Thanks for the invite. You are always welcome to stop by snowy Wisconsin as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 No one has mentioned cost. A beautiful jointer plane is about 400, while a beautiful jointer is at least 2000! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 No one has mentioned cost. A beautiful jointer plane is about 400, while a beautiful jointer is at least 2000! Bingo! I also like the peace and quiet of hand tools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Bingo! I also like the peace and quiet of hand tools. The noise is what has brought me into hand tools and kept me there (even after looking longingly at bandsaws after a long hand rip) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 The noise is what has brought me into hand tools and kept me there (even after looking longingly at bandsaws after a long hand rip) I love my bandsaw. I only use my table saw for long rips. I also have a sliding miter saw, but that rarely gets used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thewoodwhisperer Posted July 31, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm trying to figure out how a hand plane is faster than a powered jointer in any situation other than perhaps sweetening an already straight edge.. I use both tools myself and in terms of speed alone, it's not even close. Add a messed up board or multiples and the time difference is even more dramatic. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm trying to figure out how a hand plane is faster than a powered jointer in any situation other than perhaps sweetening an already straight edge.. I use both tools myself and in terms of speed alone, it's not even close. Add a messed up board or multiples and the time difference is even more dramatic. I don't know about faster, but i bet you get better results on highly figured wood with a hand plane than a powered planer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Depends on the plane and the hands wielding it. A standard jointer plane can mangle the heck out of a figured board. And a helical head can yield glass smooth results in figured stock. Surface quality really just depends on the board, the equipment, and the user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'm trying to figure out how a hand plane is faster than a powered jointer in any situation other than perhaps sweetening an already straight edge. If you have a 13" wide board and a 6" powered jointer, a hand plane will be faster. Relating to the glass smooth results from a helical head — I have yet to see any machine, no matter how well tuned, leave a surface that is as good as a hand planed one. Even with a helical head, you'll still get those little scallops, which you can see by setting a hand plane to take a really fine shaving. You'll see that Swiss cheese type shaving showing that the hand plane is taking a shaving that is thinner than the depth of the scallops. This is not to say that one needs to hand plane a surface, of course. There is plenty of good work being done using a powered jointer followed by sanding. Which I think also makes the point: even die hard Normites aren't relying on a machine to leave a final surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 If you have a 13" wide board and a 6" powered jointer, a hand plane will be faster. Relating to the glass smooth results from a helical head — I have yet to see any machine, no matter how well tuned, leave a surface that is as good as a hand planed one. Even with a helical head, you'll still get those little scallops, which you can see by setting a hand plane to take a really fine shaving. You'll see that Swiss cheese type shaving showing that the hand plane is taking a shaving that is thinner than the depth of the scallops. This is not to say that one needs to hand plane a surface, of course. There is plenty of good work being done using a powered jointer followed by sanding. Which I think also makes the point: even die hard Normites aren't relying on a machine to leave a final surface. I dont know anything about hand planing. How long does it take to joint, plane and thickness an average reasonably decent piece of rough cut lumber 13" wide by say 5 ft long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 ==> but i bet you get better results on highly figured wood with a hand plane than a powered planer as in most things, it depends... You can get jointer knives (or, in my case, Tersa) with back bevels that handle figured stock just fine... Helical heads can also help... I've got a LA jointer plane as well as a York pitch -- they are great for fine-tuning, but for speed, the stationary powered jointer wins every time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Relating to the glass smooth results from a helical head — I have yet to see any machine, no matter how well tuned, leave a surface that is as good as a hand planed one. Even with a helical head, you'll still get those little scallops, which you can see by setting a hand plane to take a really fine shaving. You'll see that Swiss cheese type shaving showing that the hand plane is taking a shaving that is thinner than the depth of the scallops. I'll take a helical head surface over one flattened with a jointer plane any day. I don't know about you guys, but my jointer plane tends to leave track marks on the surface. If my planer leaves minute scallops, they are completely undetectable to my fingers, my eyes, and my straight edge. I really don't care if the hand plane's eyes can see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I couldn't imagine milling a piece of lumber completely by hand. I would pick the stationary jointer every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Wow, this has been an interesting discussion. That's what I love about this group. I guess I should have been more clear. Obviously, if you have a twisted hunk of wood that you are trying to turn into a usable board, or a bow shaped chunk that you need to work down, the jointer will be faster. If I am jointing up pieces to build a raised panel (which comes up a lot in my world.) I can take what's already a decent board, pop it in the speedy leg vise, run the jointer plane over it and I never have to leave my bench. It is fast, easy and buttery smooth. I love my jointer plane. I have a basic 6" jointer with knives and its fine. But the finish isn't as good as my jointer plane. (no helical heads in my shop.) Either way, I cut the other side of the board on my table saw to make the two sides parallel. By the way, Graham, I have wicked jointer envy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted July 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 I'll take a helical head surface over one flattened with a jointer plane any day. I don't know about you guys, but my jointer plane tends to leave track marks on the surface. If my planer leaves minute scallops, they are completely undetectable to my fingers, my eyes, and my straight edge. I really don't care if the hand plane's eyes can see it. Marc, I agree with you, however, if the jointed surface is narrower than my plane it becomes a non-factor. Wouldn't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Yes. But the discussion there kind of turned to faces instead of edges. I don't have many boards who's faces could be covered with one pass of my jointer plane. But yes, anything you can do in one pass would certainly come out clean and without any track marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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