Llama Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I have decided to make my Shaker inspired workbench using solid wood instead of plywood. I will likely use poplar or similar because I will be painting the base. My question is this... Will using T&G joinery for the case be sufficient to deal with the wood movement? I am also open to suggestions as far as methods of attaching the faceframe to the case. Nails are the first thing that come to mind... Thanks for all of your help and patience while I go through this workbench endeavor. Each and everyone of your replies have made an impact on my final decisions. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 For paint grade in cabinetry, maple is sought over poplar for a number of reasons. Maple is a denser wood, harder to dent, and will provide a more stable component over poplar. In a high traffic area at the lower end of your bench, you will dent the hell out of poplar. Also lighter, less mass than a maple base. Tounge and groove prob not for my tastes. Mortise and tenon, peg them if you want more beef. For any frame and panel work, float the panels and allow for movement. I love the spaceballs, they also help center your panels if you are raising them, helping to acheive crisp lines. You dont have to pay for clear maple, get the dirty stuff with a few knots here and there, after all it is paint grade. Good luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Mel, if you are going with the solid wood, do as Freddie says and go with the maple. If you look on KM's website, they only sell Polar as select and better at $2.08/BF. However, you can get #1 common soft maple for $1.50/BF. If you are painting it, the color of the board shouldn't really matter, along with reasonable defects. Saving 25% on a chunk of your material, for a more robust material at that, is worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Good point Sam. I didn't look at the prices, I just assumed the poplar would be less expensive. I'll get some maple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 I have decided to make my Shaker inspired workbench using solid wood instead of plywood. I will likely use poplar or similar because I will be painting the base. My question is this... Will using T&G joinery for the case be sufficient to deal with the wood movement? I am also open to suggestions as far as methods of attaching the faceframe to the case. Nails are the first thing that come to mind... Thanks for all of your help and patience while I go through this workbench endeavor. Each and everyone of your replies have made an impact on my final decisions. Thank you. Before you start your build get the book below to see how Thos. Moser and one of his employees built a Shaker workbench: http://www.amazon.com/In-Shaker-Style-The/dp/1561583960 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Before you start your build get the book below to see how Thos. Moser and one of his employees built a Shaker workbench: http://www.amazon.com/In-Shaker-Style-The/dp/1561583960 Thanks! It should be here by Friday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Looks like that book should have some useful information, perhaps even your roadmap. I will just add I like pine, I like the few dings it gets, gives a piece soul. That said our painted kitchen fascias are utilie to avoid that very thing from occuring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Personally I would go with a soft wood, because I would rather ding the bench, than ding a work piece. I know a lot of people hate it, But I have to recommend SYP, as it's cheap and plentiful, it's also stiffer and heavier than woods commonly associated with benches. http://books.google.com/books?id=zN-ZBSv2UuIC&lpg=PP1&dq=chris%20workbench%20design&pg=PA15#v=onepage&q&f=false My local Menards for example stocks 2" x 12" x 18' (perfect for an 8' benchtop) for $25.89, that's $1.03/BF. It's construction grade, so you would have to sticker it for a little while, but you can save a boat load of cash. With regards to movement, I would go M&T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 My thoughts on the T&G are to have a look like this... Particularly how the end pieces are. Not this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 Poplar would be fine for the painted part. It takes paint nicely, and kiln dried is very stable. Around here, even Lowes and Home Depot sell clear Poplar boards. The wider ones are glued up, but the narrower ones are pretty nice, dry, and stable. I'm sure neither are the cheapest places to get it, but we don't have a good hardwood supplier within a couple of hours, so I always use some of it. T&G should be fine. When we sell small stands of timber, lately we get 15 bucks a ton for pine and hardwood, 10 for Poplar, and one dollar a ton for Sweet Gum. I don't know what anyone does with Sweet Gum. The buyers separate Poplar out of what they call "hardwood". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted December 18, 2013 Report Share Posted December 18, 2013 That BC shaker looks the bomb. Just follow those plans dude . Just substitute the ply for edge glued wood boards if wood is the choice. I actually prefer the BC over the old style, not often I say that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtwood Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I don't see why you'd need to worry about movement across the width of the bench with solid panels as long as everything is a solid panel. Maybe you have some frames or drawer slides where there would be an issue, but you handle that the same way you would in a piece of furniture with solid sides. If anything it eliminates the movement issue between the top and the cabinet and you can just attach that sucker with a hundred screws if it floats yer boat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 My thoughts on the T&G are to have a look like this... Particularly how the end pieces are. Not this... The design whereby a moveable dog is trapped in a track, like on the 'green' workbench, is a poor one. If you're going to this much trouble overall, do build a regular tail vise. The latter will let you trap whole workpieces at an angle for sawing half-blind dovetails, etc. The other design will not. See Tage Frid's dovetailing video or any number of other still photographs of a traditional tail vise being used to good effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I can reap them at any angle in the leg vise. My thought is to have the tail for faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 I have decided to make my Shaker inspired workbench using solid wood instead of plywood. I will likely use poplar or similar because I will be painting the base. My question is this... Will using T&G joinery for the case be sufficient to deal with the wood movement? Yes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I can reap them at any angle in the leg vise. My thought is to have the tail for faces. The tail vise of which I'm speaking still has dogs and will function in exactly the same manner as the 'green' bench in your photo but without the added limitation of that bench's arrangement not being a true tail vise. And your leg vise would be better as a shoulder vise, but then that wouldn't be a Shaker bench but a Frid/Klausz/Scandinavian bench. Think about it! You're about to invest a lot of time and money. With a shoulder and a tail vise you have completely unobstructed clamping all the way to the floor. All other front vises and leg vises have a guide screw or screws that get in the way. You can still build a cabinet underneath the bench if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 I already have the Bench Crafted hardware. The "green" bench is the one I'm going with. My thoughts about holding large case sides for dovetailing involve using the sliding deadman in conjunction with the leg vise. Heck, right now I get by with a 2x4 bench with an mdf top with a veritas twin screw on the wrong side. I think that anything will be better than what I have now. Having said all of this... When I first started looking at benches, the Klausz bench was the one I thought I would build. In the end, I can not think of a more "American" workbench to build than the Shaker style bench. This is not "the" reason I'm building it, just another tick in that column. In the end, this bench will make me want to spend time with it. It is the one that calls to me the most. I do certainly appreciate your input on this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Think about it! You're about to invest a lot of time and money. With a shoulder and a tail vise you have completely unobstructed clamping all the way to the floor. All other front vises and leg vises have a guide screw or screws that get in the way. You can still build a cabinet underneath the bench if you want to. Mine’s not a Shaker bench, but it has a leg vise and a sliding deadman, and has no problems holding large boards, even ones that get down close to the floor. Here’s a wide board held vertically: And a long board held horizontally: My leg vise and sliding deadman did a great job holding the boards that I dovetailed together to make this case. I may have had issues making the dovetails, but having the guide or the screw of my leg vise get in the way was not one of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Thank you Wilbur for confirming my thoughts on this! Great pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Mel,I agree with Wilbur, the only thing a shoulder vice adds is more versatility. By that I mean a vice should have a leg vice & tail vice, and if you want more flexibility add a shoulder vice.check out this video that shows what I mean. The down side of having 3 vices, is that the bench cannot be set against a wall.http://woodtreks.com/design-build-traditional-woodworking-workbench-tail-shoulder-leg-vises/1651/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CStanford Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Mine’s not a Shaker bench, but it has a leg vise and a sliding deadman, and has no problems holding large boards, even ones that get down close to the floor. Here’s a wide board held vertically: And a long board held horizontally: My leg vise and sliding deadman did a great job holding the boards that I dovetailed together to make this case. I may have had issues making the dovetails, but having the guide or the screw of my leg vise get in the way was not one of them. With a shoulder vise you wouldn't have needed the deadman and f-clamp in pic 1 at all. You could clamp to the center of the board since no screw is in the way, not to the side because the screw is in the way on a leg vise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 With a shoulder vise you wouldn't have needed the deadman and f-clamp in pic 1 at all. You could clamp to the center of the board since no screw is in the way, not to the side because the screw is in the way on a leg vise.With a leg vise and a dead man you can edge plane really long boards, that can't be done with a shoulder vice alone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted December 20, 2013 Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Dan beat me to it. Speaking of things that get in the way, the other thing that my leg vise set up is good for is that I don’t have to reach over the shoulder vise to saw dovetails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted December 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2013 Nice video Dan. For me, I think the shoulder vise would get in the way if my belly In reality, I do see it as an obstacle. However handy it may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 Hey Mel, that bench sure is perdy, looking forward to seeing updates on the build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.