Festool "tools"

[Doug Boland]

What would be the first "Festool" tool one should buy if just getting into the Festool scene?

I used to think that Festool was just WAY too expensive for my budget. But as I am working in a small basement shop I can see the benefit of the Festool system. So I would like to hear from Festool users as what tool would you get first?

Thanks ahead of time.

Doug

[wtnhighlander]

As a thus far non-Festool owner, I must say that I see the track saw benefitting me the most.

[Llama]

Domino.

[Doug Boland]

I have thought about that, however I made a saw guide from hard board and MDF. I break my large sheet goods down in the garage and then pack it around to the basement. I think I would be leaning towards a sander and dust extractor because it would really help on dust control. So that being said, Festool owners, if I wanted a good general purpose sander what would you recommend?

Thanks

Doug

[andrew-in-austin]

Domino, absolutely.

[stahlee]

An ETS150 will do the trick. Although, you'll have to choose between the /3 or /5. I have a Rotex 150 to do the heavy sanding and then I finish up with the ETS150/3. If you only want one sander, the /5 will be your best bet.

 

As for buying Festool, you can go a couple of ways. If you want to speed up joinery, go for the Domino because it's just awesome. If you want a better finishing experience then a sander is a good call. You'll need a dust extractor for it like you were talking about or it won't be any fun. They TS55 will always be a great first Festool because it is a joy to use, but if you're happy with what you're doing then save it for later. 

 

I would also think about what you may want to purchase down the road. If you get one sander the the ETS150/5 is the one. Sorry, you could also do the smaller ETS125 models to. If you're looking to round out your sanding and consider buying two or three, then you'll want to make sure you make smart purchases now. When I bought the Rotex I questioned how much I would use it. I ended up using it quite a bit. Many may not want something that aggressive, but if you build things like end grain cutting boards then the Rotex is going to be your best friend. If you buy a Rotex then you'll want an ETS /3 model to compliment it. The Rotex 90 DX is another great sander that makes that setup the trifecta.

 

Regardless, if you buy a sander then plan to budget for a dust extractor. It's a worthy purchase. If you consider a TS55, then the MFT is something to think about to. I use mine for everything.

 

Sorry so long winded. Just thinking about the order I purchased my Festool equipment. I bought the TS55 first. I will repeat that the Domino is my favorite of maybe any tool I own.

[Freddie]

The festool track saw is indispensable in my small shop, I would never want to part with it. I added the 10' rail and ct26 vac and it makes sheet goods a breeze. My domino has been bitter sweet for me however. It is a great and fantastic little machine, and served me well on a batched out project for a customer, but I feel it adds a sense of laziness to a small hobby shop, at least in my personal experience. I decided to no longer build for others, only for myself and family, so I have found it less dominant in application for my needs. Heck, I can bang em out nice and tidy by hand, and if I'm feeling lazy, I have a beautiful PM mortiser that still has the new car smell. You guys might see my domino for sale one day online if it does in fact become a dust collector. 

[wdwerker]

My domino is always in use. The ability to pop a mortice and tenon joint almost anywhere quickly and accurately is wonderful.

Even with 2 UniSaws my track saw is very handy for cuts on large sheet goods. I also bought a 118" track to make long rips that are glue joint quality. Joined it to my 75" track and made some 15 foot long rips that glued up beautifully !

[4-Square]

I’m not sure tools-for-tools-sake is really the best procurement strategy… On the other hand, I’m a guy and completely understand tools-for-tools-sake

 

You’ve got to look at what you want to make – the TS55 is an awesome tool, but won’t get much use if you never intend to use sheet goods…

 

If you really don’t have any idea, then I’d look at specific FT kit that’s best in class, unique and/or differentiates from the rest of the pack.

 

Domino, Domino XL – game changer

TS55 – there are now other track saws, but I’ve never used them.

CSX – class by itself. Rest of drills are OK, but expensive for what they are. 15v is crap and a flop... Bosch is better for less $.

ETS 150/3 – class by itself. ETS 125/150-5 are also-rans. The delta sander is nice to have. The rest are also-rans. The 93 is good.

OF2200 – class by itself, rest are also-rans.

MFK - almost class by itself. Bit expensive for what it is -- unless you use the 0d base -- that's nice.

Planex – almost unique, very useful.

Kapex – The Bosch slider is close at $400 less.

CMS – class by itself, but over priced - way over priced.

MFT – class by itself, especially useful if you have the TS55.

PSC-420 - jury is still out. Looking good so far. Marfil is better, but $200 more.

Rotex 90 - Very useful, avoid the 125&150

 

CT26 - you've got to have at least one good vac. Fein/Mirka/etc are all great. If you've got to have FT, then the CT26/36 isn't a bad place to start. Boom arm is expensive for what it is, but is certainly nice to have. Oneids'a UDD is awsome, but also expensive for what it is. Make no mistake, a fully-tricked-out CT26/36 is about a grand, but nice to have around the shop.

 

BTW: I've got every tool Festool makes for the NA market. If it's not on the above list, I don't recomend it. It's not that it's a bad tool (well, some of the jigsaws are terrible, and the 15v kit is crap and there are some other dogs)... But if I don't mention it above, then the tool is either an also-ran or too overpriced to be worthwhile.

 

 

Good luck.

[minorhero]

I have a personal shop and I belong to a woodworking club. At home I have non festool tools. The club on the other hand has all the festool tools. I have used several of them and in my opinion the sanders are not that great and the non standard sandpaper arrangement is kinda annoying when it comes to buying sandpaper from big box locations. Don't get me wrong, it does the job but its not any better than other top of the line sanders.

The tool that really impressed me was the track saw. I used that and was so impressed I knew immediately that when I stopped going to the club I would be buying a track saw. I have at home an aluminum straight edge I use with a regular circular saw and a track saw is night and day different. A track saw produces a glue ready edge and I have used it to joint a VERY curved board.

After that I would get the domino because it does something no one else can do right now.

[Steve Lyde]

My first Festool was the track saw, which I don't use as much since I got a good table saw.  My most used Festools are my two sanders, ETS105/5 and RO90 and vac.  Second most used Festool is my Domino, wouldn't part with any of those. Oh and yes I really like the MFT as well.

[rodger.]

Domino with tenon assortment

[rodger.]

Domino with tenon assortment

[Mzdadoc]

Sander with their dust extraction

[Doug Boland]

Opps, it looks like I tried to break a rule of clicking too many likes. I'm a newby.

Anyway thanks for all the feed back on Festool, good information to ponder. Thanks so much all!

Only been a member one day but this seems to be a great forum.

[bushwacked]

Lots of good info here.

[bgreenb]

Some of the festool tools are no brainers to me in terms of value (domino, track saw, sanders/dust collectors, kapex miter saw).  Those are all game changers.  

 

But the rest of them I don't really understand.  What value are they really adding to a cordless drill?  The router I can kind of see because it plays nicely with their dust collection, but even that one seems pretty borderline.  Does anyone have one of their cordless drills?  Is it really worth 4-500?  Is their OF1400 router really worth 500?  Or the 2200 router worth $850 (!!)?

 

I have a 20v dewalt drill and a 20v dewalt impact gun that combined cost me less than 300 and they are absolutely phenomenal, I honestly couldn't even identify something I would improve.

[BuilderBill]

I have thought about that, however I made a saw guide from hard board and MDF. I break my large sheet goods down in the garage and then pack it around to the basement. I think I would be leaning towards a sander and dust extractor because it would really help on dust control. So that being said, Festool owners, if I wanted a good general purpose sander what would you recommend?

Thanks

Doug

 

A Mirka Ceros for the sander, Festool doesn't have anything that compares in the "general purpose" category.

 

And either a Fein or Festool dust extractor to go with it. Festool has the advantage in vacs since all their models offer the same performance, if you want something small they're the obvious choice. If you have room for a large footprint unit the Fein Turbo III is a good alternate to the CT-26/36/48 Festools.

 

I think you'd be surprised at just how much of an improvement there is to be had with the TS/vac combo versus breaking down sheet goods in the garage with a homemade guide and a circ saw. Been there, done that, won't go back. The TS55 will share my casket with the Ceros.

 

What would be the first "Festool" tool one should buy if just getting into the Festool scene?

I used to think that Festool was just WAY too expensive for my budget. But as I am working in a small basement shop I can see the benefit of the Festool system. So I would like to hear from Festool users as what tool would you get first?

Thanks ahead of time.

Doug

 

The Domino is definetely a game-changer, well worth the exorbitant cost for a glorified plate-joiner(and yes, I have one). I'd also consider the MFT-3 table as a must-have, it doesn't come anywhere near replacing a tablesaw but combined with a couple sets of Qwas dogs it makes crosscutting sheet goods and assembly of anything so easy it's a no-brainer.

 

IMHO, the Kapex is overpriced and a definite under-performer. I have one of those, too. Dust collection is better than any slide-miter I've used but nothing to write home about. And they tend to burn up when pressed hard. Great for occasional shop use, too fragile for the on-site use they're advertised for. No "game-changer" with this one.

 

Some of the festool tools are no brainers to me in terms of value (domino, track saw, sanders/dust collectors, kapex miter saw).  Those are all game changers.  

 

But the rest of them I don't really understand.  What value are they really adding to a cordless drill?  The router I can kind of see because it plays nicely with their dust collection, but even that one seems pretty borderline.  Does anyone have one of their cordless drills?  Is it really worth 4-500?  Is their OF1400 router really worth 500?  Or the 2200 router worth $850 (!!)?

 

I have a 20v dewalt drill and a 20v dewalt impact gun that combined cost me less than 300 and they are absolutely phenomenal, I honestly couldn't even identify something I would improve.

 

bgreenb, I don't have any of their cordless gear but I'm happy with my Makita 18V so like you don't see a need. I have the 1010 router that works great with the LR32 system, wouldn't swap the combo for the world but all it does for me is drill 32mm system holes. The awkward placement of the right-angle handle is something I just can't get used to so it pretty much sits when I need to do light edge work.

 

Dust collection on the 1400 works well but not if you want to see where you're routing and dealing with the funky handle is a pain, the DeWalt 621 with a clear base works just as well with easier handling and the bonus of visibility. I have to give the OF2200 it's props, it's the King-Hell Daddy of big routers. Compared to the DW 625(and it's Elu predeccessor), the P-C 7518 and 7539 it's a definite winner and well worth the $850 price tag. My coffin is getting crowded...

 

I guess the point I'm making is that Festool makes some excellent tools but, just like any other manufacturer, they're not the be-all, end-all of portable power tools. They have their diamonds and their stones. You can spend a lot of money on stones in fancy Systainers if you aren't careful so take your time making your decisions.

 

HTH,

Bill

[4-Square]

<A Mirka Ceros for the sander, Festool doesn't have anything that compares in the "general purpose" category

Well, if we're off FT ... Yea, CEROS all the way. I've got every CEROS introduced into the NA market and imported the 2.5mm stroke from the UK. The 150/3 is the best FT sander made (the RO 90 is also great and the 93 is up there with the Fein), but the 5mm and 2.5mm stroke CEROS are amaizing. The 8mm CEROS is a better Rotex then the Rotex. OK, they maybe $500 each, but you only live once... BTW: Mirka now sells bare tools... Get one full CEROS kit and the rest sans-transformer -- save $175/per tool.

[Reiska]

Well, I have a CXS, PDC18 and a Ti15 and the thing Festool brings to drilling is the excellent Centrotec quick head/bit and chuck change system that works across drills and proper corner chucks for those situationa where you cannot fit otherwise.

The CXS is my goto driver, but if I need more umph I can just detach what ever tool I'm using and click it into the PDC in a blink and get it done.

In my humble opinion the Ti15 impact is the worst driver that Festool makes and definitely isn't worth the money they ask for it (I got mine @ 50% off so its good for that money). Impacts are so situational tools anyway that I don't really see their value.

Also the Festool drill bits and Centrotec assessories are of great quality.

[ChetlovesMer]

4-Square,

 

It is my opinion that the Hitachi "rails forward" big slider is better than the Bosch. (Although, I've heard they are now made in China... mine's made in Japan.) And you can buy $600 worth of exotic wood instead of the Kapex.

 

IMO - The OF2200 is the shiz-nit! With a dust extractor not much else can do what it can do and not spray chips all over your shop.

 

One question- Why doesn't the OF2200 come with English markings?!?!... 

 

And as everyone has said the Domino is really cool.

[Coop]

Sure wish I was able to join this conversation

[Vyrolan]

OF2200 – class by itself, rest are also-rans.

 

I have to give the OF2200 it's props, it's the King-Hell Daddy of big routers. Compared to the DW 625(and it's Elu predeccessor), the P-C 7518 and 7539 it's a definite winner and well worth the $850 price tag. My coffin is getting crowded...

 

IMO - The OF2200 is the shiz-nit! With a dust extractor not much else can do what it can do and not spray chips all over your shop.

 

So owning no routers, I had thought about just getting the OF2200 because of the whole "buy once" concept...but the 850 seems kind of excessive especially starting out.   I was looking at like DW 618 kit (2-1/4 HP) as a handheld and pick up something like a PC7518 later to dedicate to a table.  Is the FT one really worth it?   I had been thinking no but this thread has been changing my mind.

[bgreenb]

So owning no routers, I had thought about just getting the OF2200 because of the whole "buy once" concept...but the 850 seems kind of excessive especially starting out.   I was looking at like DW 618 kit (2-1/4 HP) as a handheld and pick up something like a PC7518 later to dedicate to a table.  Is the FT one really worth it?   I had been thinking no but this thread has been changing my mind.

 

I don't have a festool router, but I do have both of the ones you mentioned (the dewalt plus the PC 7518).  I've been very happy with both.  I use the dewalt as a handheld router and the PC in my router table.  If money were no object, I could definitely see the usefulness of the OF2200, but I think you're better off with the two routers you mentioned (it's nice to have two different routers for dedicated purposes.  I actually have four.)  

 

And for the record, I'm with you on the "buy once" principle, but in this case I think you're better off with two great tools than one super awesome fantastic tool.  JMO.

[4-Square]

I've played with the Hitachi once or twice. A friend of mine’s a stair-railing guy and loves his Hitachi. Now it could be a Japan/China thing, but I found a bit too much play for my liking. Another guy I know is a trim-guy and he uses the H day-in-day-out. Both of them got theirs some time ago, so they're probably J-sourced... I've used the Bosch myself on two jobs and found it had a bit less slop than the H -- but again, am I comparing apples-oranges? I think the kapex is a bit better then both -- but you are really paying for it... The saw+ crown sets+ a blade or three and you're right up there at $2K... But I have to say, the Forrest Custom Signature Series blade one Kapex is pretty sweet... I don't care how much Kool-Aid one drinks, the Forrest blade is far superior to anything FT brings to the table -- and a sharp blade is about 80% of the battle...

 

The 2200 is a great tool... But it should not be your first and/or one and only router... It's BIG and heavy and does so much well, but did I mention it’s BIG and heavy... There are times when mass&power bring a lot to the table, but sometimes it's like squirrel hunting with a .308 -- to much gun for the job (and I don't want to hear from you western prairie-dog guys). My PC690s are the go-to routers (I’ve probably got four or five). The 2200 is reserved for big game… When you’re going to do an hour or two of serious routing, the power, mass and DC put it in a class by itself…

 

The 7518 is the go-to router table router. I’ve got a couple of bare motors at $199 and the Woodpecker’s PRL lift… Great combo. Notre: you’ve got to have good DC in the router cabinet – the 7518 is notorious for fines killing the speed selector switch. I’ve had to replace several over the years...

 

As for English markings, No FT product comes with SAE units. However, there are some guys that make Imperial scales for FT products. I've retrofitted Imperial scales on both the Domino and Domino XL... I also have gone through the shop and replaced Imperial-only scales with Starrett Metric+Imperial scales. At this point, most of my tools speak both.