WTO Rite of Passage: Roubo Build Thread

[estesbubba]

Not much progress the last couple nights, unless by "progress" you mean "sanding drywall taping compound so my wife gets off my back about the basement."  But I did get a few minutes tonight to mill up the end cap from a piece of 16/4 walnut that I had left over from my coffee table build...

And my OCD got the better of me.  Gluing in a patch and re-routing the screw cavity tomorrow.  Couldn't deal with being off by 1/32.  Just worried about problems down the line during vise installation.

Also got the shop organized and ready to go for the next step.  Hopefully more tomorrow.

Now that you have the vise installed do you think that 1/32" would have been a problem? Mine just came out that same amount off. I was damn careful but I think a 2" deep cut just pulled the fence really tight. 

[bgreenb]

Now that you have the vise installed do you think that 1/32" would have been a problem? Mine just came out that same amount off. I was damn careful but I think a 2" deep cut just pulled the fence really tight. 

Nope, wouldn't have mattered at all. You might have a tiny bit of extra play in the nut block, but it's supposed to have 3/32 of play anyway. If you really didn't want the extra play (which won't matter anyway because the dog block itself will be milled tight to its groove) then you could install one of the rails a tiny bit over the edge (instead of flush with the edge) to make up the difference. Let me know if you don't understand what I mean and I can take some pics. 

Bottom line- in retrospect I didn't need to fix it, and if I were you I wouldn't bother. 

[bgreenb]

Lots of progress this weekend.  I started by fine tuning the tenons and assigning them to specific mortises.  Lots of work with the LN RBP, auriou rasp, and my new japanese chisels.  All are a pleasure to use.  I also cut the grooves for the shelf ledgers while I had the dado stack installed.

I then drilled all the holes for the drawbore pegs, plus the holdfast holes and the dog access hole in the right front leg.

And then I tackled the leg vise installation.  Not too many pics here, other than the finished product, but I did pause to take a pic before I drilled that big freaking hole for the acetal bushing.  I almost laughed at how big this forstner bit was.  What a beast.

Here she is.  The advertisements are dead on...this thing is SMOOTH.  The installation is definitely more complicated and finicky than the tail vise (makes sense, more moving parts).  Drilling the long holes for the pins is definitely nervewracking.  It definitely helps to have an extra set of hands when you're trying to get the nut placement dead on.  

The only gripe I have so far with the benchcrafted hardware is the slotted wood screws they provide for attaching the nut and the acetal bushing.  Serious question - is there any reason other than looks to ever use a slotted screw?  After I stripped 3 of them and the 500th time my screwdriver slipped out of the slot, I finally threw them away and used my own square drive screws.  Otherwise, all the BC hardware has been top notch and very impressive.  The instructions are great too - very clear and easy to follow.  

I definitely feel like I'm entering the home stretch now, although there is still quite a bit to do.  Next up is the base assembly, which I'm hoping to tackle tonight or tomorrow.

[Tom Cancelleri]

Thanks Brian thats what I thought plus I read the Benchcrafted plans and they said you can go up to 17". 

The 17" includes the end cap. I misunderstood it as well. My cavity because of the catch and pucker was 14 1/2" and I put some cherry scraps in the end of the cavity because the nut block would fall off. Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

[Tom Cancelleri]

Brian, is your dog access hole off set? In the picture it looks centered Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

[estesbubba]

Wow you got a lot done since the last update! Keep up the good work. 

[wtnhighlander]

Very clean joinery. This is gonna be one great-looking bench!

[bgreenb]

Brian, is your dog access hole off set? In the picture it looks centered Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

Wow. Great looking out!  I'm an idiot. Looks like that dog access hole is gonna be a bit bigger than planned. Either that or it's gonna be a dog access rectangle. 

[Tom Cancelleri]

Wow. Great looking out!  I'm an idiot. Looks like that dog access hole is gonna be a bit bigger than planned. Either that or it's gonna be a dog access rectangle. 

I remember checking my dog access hole location about 40 times. The measurements and layout and checking and checking and checking and checking once more before drilling on the drill press. 

[bgreenb]

First things first:  I "fixed" the dog access hole (by simply drilling a bigger hole that encompasses the first hole.  I was a bit concerned about taking this much meat out of the leg, but it is what it is.  

Then it was base assembly time.  First I did a full dry assembly, checked everything for square, and then marked out for the drawbore holes in the tenons.  I've used drawbore pegs before, so this wasn't too complicated.  Just remember to offset the holes *toward* the shoulder - it would be easy to do it the other way without thinking.  I then cut a bunch of pegs out of commercial 3/8" walnut dowel stock and used a utility knife to taper one end a bit to ease entry (hehe).  After that it was off to the races.  I did each side assembly one at a time, and then did the two long stretchers.  I absolutely love drawbored M&T.  It's so easy to assemble.  No futzing around with clamps, no messing with squares, etc.  If your tenon shoulders are square, the joint will be square.  And those pegs pull it TIGHT.  

Here she is:

I then cleaned up a bit and set up my new steel sawhorses (the wooden ones weren't working out.  Honestly they're fine for DIY stuff but I found them too rickety, and they had all kinds of dried glue on the surface that prevented the slabs from sitting flat.  It was annoying me.)

Finally, I flipped the base up on the slabs to get ready to mark out mortises.  This base is incredibly sturdy and very heavy.  Getting it up on the base on my own was a challenge.  

Here's where I quit for the night.  Didn't have it in me to get everything lined up to mark out mortises. Rather start fresh with that.  I did get to unpack my new toy though:

 

 

 

Haven't completely set it up yet - first time I use it will probably be for smoothing the curves on the chop.  Excited to give it a test run.

[shaneymack]

Good progress! How many hours would you say you put into this so far? Sent from my SM-P550 using Tapatalk

[Jim DaddyO]

That is very nice....love it!

[sheperd80]

Amazing work! Cant wait to see it all done. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[Tom Cancelleri]

Tearing through the build. Nicely done on the hole enlargement. Now comes the things that are super tedious.

[bgreenb]

Good progress! How many hours would you say you put into this so far? Sent from my SM-P550 using Tapatalk

Good question.  What's nice is that I've basically documented every night/day of shop time in this thread, so I just went back and totaled it up (roughly).  If I just account for time spent *in the shop* working on the Roubo, I'm at about 48 hours, so call it 50.  But if you add in all the time spent watching videos, studying Tom's thread, thinking about and laying out my shop time, etc., it's considerably more than that.

Ironically, I think if I were retired and/or unemployed it would take me longer because I'd be less efficient.  I have a lot of down time to think about exactly what I need to do, so when I get into the shop for an hour it's no nonsense - I can get right down to it (e.g., ok tonight I need to cut these mortises that are already marked out, let's get to it).  

But yeah, I'd say 50 hours of actual working so far.

[Tom Cancelleri]

I would agree with the amount of time spent. Easily 6 hours worth of milling. In total I'd say I have 90-110 hours in mine, going over the plans, and all that. Everything you think will take an hour, multiply by 2.5. You're tearing through this build. Keep kicking ass, been fun to watch from the passage seat. Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

[estesbubba]

Moving right along and a new toy! 

[bgreenb]

Last night I got some time out in the shop, so I cut the mortises in the top for the base tenons.  It can be kind of tricky to line up the base and top just right, so I'll share my method here because it might help someone coming along here in the future:

First I measured the depth of the base and the width of each slab.  My base was 23 31/32" deep, my front slab was 11 3/32 and my back slab was 11 1/16.  From this I can calculate the theoretical exact size of the gap.  23 31/32 - 11 3/32 - 11 1/16 = 23 31/32 - 22 5/32 = 1 13/16".  I then cut two scrap blocks to 1 7/8, placed them in the gap between the slabs, and pulled the slabs together, which ensured a uniform gap.  I also made sure the ends of the slabs were even with each other.  The reason that I made the scrap blocks 1/16 oversized was because I figured it would be easier to move the back slab "in" rather than "out" (since you have no striking surface for the dead blow on the inside of the slab - hopefully that made sense).

That paragraph was long, but all of that took about 2 minutes.  

Then I took two jointed scrap boards and clamped them to the front of the front slab, and I used them to align the base with the front of the bench.  

Once the base was aligned to the front of the bench, I used a dead blow to align the side of the base with the front of the dog hole strip (as Marc describes in his video).  At that point I know the base and the front slab are in the right position, so I clamped them together.  

Then all I had to do was remove the spacer blocks and tap the back slab forward until it was flush with the base in the back.

Again - lots of text above, but it took < 10 minutes to get everything perfectly aligned this way.  I then traced out my tenons and cut the mortises:

I used the router freehand to (carefully) cut the mortises and then worked back to the line with a chisel (similar to how the condor tail sockets are done).  For the mortise closest the tail vise, where you can't get at the whole thing with a router because of the vise rails, I used a hand drill and forstner bit to waste out most of it, and then worked the rest with a chisel.  It all took a bit of fine tuning, but everything fit nicely:

This is how she'll stay until at least Sunday, as I'm away again this weekend.  Next up I will route the slot for the deadman and then do a bunch of sanding/cleanup of the base while I have it upside down.  Then I'll get the bench in its final resting place and do the final top flattening before I move on to the finishing touches.

[Brendon_t]

Dude it's a bench.. An upside down and not flattened yet bench but it's a damn nice bench.  Great job so far B

[bgreenb]

Dude it's a bench.. An upside down and not flattened yet bench but it's a damn nice bench.  Great job so far B

Thanks Brendon.

I will own up to one other mistake that I realized last night.  When I was milling my legs I was only able to get them to 5 1/8" wide rather than the 5 3/8" called for in the plans.  I figured no big deal, my base will just be 1/2" less wide.  Well the problem is that it matters for placement of the leg vise.  It's not a huge deal, but the dog holes are arranged such that the leg vise is situated between two holes with extra spacing to accomodate the vise.  But because my base is shorter, my vise will be off center with respect to those two dog holes (I'll post a pic of that at some point).  

Doesn't affect the usage one bit, so whatever, but I should've lengthened my long rails to make up the difference.  Oh well.

[Immortan D]

Thanks Brendon.

I will own up to one other mistake that I realized last night.  When I was milling my legs I was only able to get them to 5 1/8" wide rather than the 5 3/8" called for in the plans.  I figured no big deal, my base will just be 1/2" less wide.  Well the problem is that it matters for placement of the leg vise.  It's not a huge deal, but the dog holes are arranged such that the leg vise is situated between two holes with extra spacing to accomodate the vise.  But because my base is shorter, my vise will be off center with respect to those two dog holes (I'll post a pic of that at some point).  

Doesn't affect the usage one bit, so whatever, but I should've lengthened my long rails to make up the difference.  Oh well.

It will affect the usage a lot. Just send this workbench to me and start a new one.

[estesbubba]

Brian did you epoxy both the tenon and dovetail? Also did you use slower setting epoxy than 5 mins? 

[shaneymack]

Looking great Brian! Must have been a sweet feeling when those 4 tenons slid into their mortises. Nice Work!!

[bgreenb]

Brian did you epoxy both the tenon and dovetail? Also did you use slower setting epoxy than 5 mins? 

Mike - I don't think you want to epoxy or glue the tenon - that would restrict movement in the top.  That's the reason for the slotted bolt holes in the end cap - to allow the top to move.  I just epoxied the dovetails.  

I used my usual west systems epoxy, which I believe sets up in about an hour.  But 5 minute epoxy is fine.  I wasn't using it for the slow set time, just for making sure the dovetails would slide home.  This is on advice from Eric - if dovetails are really tight fitting, the PVA glue swelling the fibers can make it difficult to seat the tails.  The epoxy, in contrast, acts like a lubricant and makes it really easy to drive the joint home.

[bgreenb]

Been a while since my last update.  I was away last weekend, didn't get in the shop until Sunday night, and was confronted by nothing but frustration.  I took the base and put it on the ground, placed the slabs on top, and found that my back slab had twisted fairly significantly (in basically the same manner as Marc's, except the opposite side).  The back right side (opposite the tail vise) was high, so the shoulder of that leg tenon was nowhere near the slab, and the slab was only contacting the top rail toward the middle.  Ugh.  Actually I'm not even sure you would call it twist, because the opposite corner didn't move at all.  The end of the bench toward the leg vise was almost perfectly coplanar (maybe out by < 1/32").  Weird.

Anyway, after thinking about it a bit, I decided the best mix of effort and result would likely be to just shim it, like Marc did, so that it sits stable, and then the final flattening will fix it.  I also decided that I'm definitely going to have to use the router method of flattening, because no way am I removing that much material (probably 5/32") by hand.  

Anyway, while the bench was still apart, I took care of a couple other things.  I routed the deadman groove (sorry no pics, but straightforward) in the top, chamfered the bottom of the feet (ditto), and applied danish oil to the bottoms of the legs as well (ditto), and chopped out the dog relief hole in the front right leg.  It's a bit nervewracking chopping into end grain of an already assembled leg.  I used a hand drill and 1" forstner bit to remove most of the waste so that I didn't have to chop too much.  

Then I spent a few days stressed out about how exactly I was gonna arrange my shop.  I had already had an arrangement in my head, but when I moved everything into it, I didn't like it, for a variety of reasons.  So I drew out a bunch of pictures (starting on the grizzly shop organizer tool, then on pencil and paper because the grizzly tool is atrocious software), and decided on a final arrangement.  This allowed me to do final assembly of the bench in its final resting place.  Here she is:

Here's a pic of the shim:

I think it looks ok.  Not great, not terrible.  I tried to match the grain of the top.  If you look closely at it you can tell it's an obvious patch, but nobody will ever look closely at it (except me), and it's on the back side of the bench.  I won't lose too much sleep.

Here you can see how high it is:

At this point I feel like I'm so close and yet so far.  

Major things left to do:  final flattening, deadman, shelves, leg vise final shaping, holdfast holes, gap stop, dogs, suede treatment. None of those things is that big or time consuming (except maybe the flattening), but there are just so many of them.  Oh and also, SANDING.  Ugh.  

Anyway, next up I will tackle the final flattening.  Gonna use the router method.  It's annoying because you really have to do it all in one session since you're working with construction lumber.  Can't straighten them, get it all set up, and then come back a day later and find the lumber is all twisted to hell.  So I'll probably wait until Saturday to tackle that.  Between now and then maybe I'll bang out the shelf ledgers or something.