Table saw recommendations

[bbaude]

Hi Folks,

I'm contemplating a new table saw here soon.  It has become painfully clear to me that the current Dewalt table saw I owe just does not have enough deck space.  This has pinched me several times recently when trying to make square, cross-cuts on table tops.  I was also trying to make the cuts for breadboard ends and the lack of real estate combined with  being a newbie really was difficult.  And no amount of custom setups with tables or stands seems to really get it right, especially the heavier the table tops get

I am currently looking at something like http://www.rockler.com/jet-10-proshop-table-saw-w-52-fence-cast-iron-wings-riving-knife .  I would love your comments on this saw if anyone has any.  One question I have is whether anyone has any experience with putting wheels on the main cabinet of the saw.  I am also curious if the wings can be added or removed reasonably quickly.  My shop shape may dictate that I need to move this from time to time.

I would be also be curious if folks had a recommendation given my questions.

Thanks in advance!  Appreciate it!

[Coop]

I bought this exact saw 6 years ago. However, I didn't order the 52" fence (I'm assuming by 52", they mean to the right of the blade), but it came in that way and they let me have it at the same cost. The cast iron wings are only 12" each and the extension table top is wood with a Formica like top. Due to lack of space, I cut the rails off and the wood extension in half and mounted one piece to the saw and I use it as my router table. I see no reason to take the cast iron wings off. The total width of the cast iron top is only 44". I did buy a heavy duty, low profile base with wheels and it works great to move for cleaning around. I'm pleased with the ProShop fence that came with it. Although it's not as beefy as some other models out there, I will probably never replace it unless it crashes big time. Due to lack of hp, I usually use a thin kerf blade on it. Most of my thick cut ripping is done on the bandsaw and final cut on the Jet ts. 

[Chet]

I don't know what your situation is as far shop space but unless you plan on cutting large amounts of sheet goods, you might want to re think the 52 inch fence.  I know it is only $150.00 difference over the 30 inch but you will be giving up almost two feet of floor space.

[bleedinblue]

I can't really envision spending $1500 for the jet.  Just a few hundred more and you are in Powermatic or Sawstop territory, and for a few hundred less you can get a comparable Grizzly.

[bbaude]

1 hour ago, K Cooper said:

I did buy a heavy duty, low profile base with wheels and it works great to move for cleaning around. 

Any particular base you choose?  Link?

 

50 minutes ago, Chet K said:

I don't know what your situation is as far shop space but unless you plan on cutting large amounts of sheet goods, you might want to re think the 52 inch fence.  I know it is only $150.00 difference over the 30 inch but you will be giving up almost two feet of floor space.

So I am looking for advice here.  I was trying to cross-cut a nearly 50" table top after gluing it up and the small deck I have right now really gave me fits.  So something like a 30" deck does not allow me to rest the top on there very well which is why I was thinking bigger deck.  But again, like you say, more deck means more floor space chewed up.  

I don't see myself cutting sheets on it.  But again, cross-cutting and tennons, etc require enough deck space right?  Thoughts? tips?

 

[wtnhighlander]

So I am looking for advice here.  I was trying to cross-cut a nearly 50" table top after gluing it up and the small deck I have right now really gave me fits.  So something like a 30" deck does not allow me to rest the top on there very well which is why I was thinking bigger deck.  But again, like you say, more deck means more floor space chewed up.  

I don't see myself cutting sheets on it.  But again, cross-cutting and tennons, etc require enough deck space right?  Thoughts? tips?

 

A simple 2x4 sawhorse, placed along side the saw, and matching the table height, can support long crosscuts, without taking permanent floor space. Wax the top to make the work glide smoothly.

[Sac]

27 minutes ago, bbaude said:

Any particular base you choose?  Link?

 

So I am looking for advice here.  I was trying to cross-cut a nearly 50" table top after gluing it up and the small deck I have right now really gave me fits.  So something like a 30" deck does not allow me to rest the top on there very well which is why I was thinking bigger deck.  But again, like you say, more deck means more floor space chewed up.  

I don't see myself cutting sheets on it.  But again, cross-cutting and tennons, etc require enough deck space right?  Thoughts? tips?

 

So do you think that you will be cutting a lot of things that will require that much space, or is this something that will only be don't once in a while?  I understand the need(want) to buy the biggest and best that we can afford.  I mean, we are men... its in our nature.  But in reality, the number of times that you're going to need that much space vs. the number of times you might get upset because those big ass rails are in the way, is probably going to learn towards getting upset more often.  If you plan on doing a lot of big tops, but still need the space, you could be better off making a custom sled to ride on that new saw, that you can hand up on the rafters or wall of your shop.

As for the saw itself, do you have 220V available to you? If so, you might as well step up and get a saw that can take advantage of that. Like @bleedinblue said, for a couple hundred more, you could get a nicer saw.  Lots of people like the Griz too.  Made in the same country as that Jet is.  You could wire up that 220 I am sure, but if you are going to do it, you might as well get 3HP out of the deal.  Both saws are going to be about the same size.  Just my thoughts..

[Coop]

OP, just giving you my take on the Jet. If I had it to do over again, knowing how much $$ I've plowed into this hobby already, I would probably go with a beefery Grizz or Powermatic.  Given your example of the 50" table top, I wouldn't attempt that on anyone's ts. I would use a darn straight guide and a circ saw or a big ass sled on the ts. 

[bbaude]

This is the table saw I own -> https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-15-Amp-10-in-Carbide-Tipped-Table-Saw/50040964

I do use a cross-cult sled but again, when the object is fairly long, the sled and the object get Topsy turvey.  When cutting the longer objects, I have to provide a fair amount of down pressure or use weights (or get my son).  Either way, I would prefer a safer approach.

Anyone aware of a table saw with deck extensions that are perhaps a little less invasive?

BTW, I think I am confusing terminology here.  What I want is more deck space.  The fence length is not as relevant to my problem.  A 30" fence is probably more than sufficient.  So bottom line, I am looking for a new table saw that probably has modular extensions that could be added where the project would dictate as such.  Does that make more sense?

[Coop]

Keep in mind bud, that regardless of the ts you have, you're still relying on the miter bar to keep it square to the blade, regardless of the table width, and you're pushing this beast thru the blade instead of pushing the blade thru it. There are  various track saws available that will give you the results you're asking for. Festool for one but others also. I'm sure others will chime in with their opinion on these, as I don't have one. 

[bleedinblue]

I absolutely, without a doubt, would NOT square up a large tabletop on a table saw.  I don't care how big the table saw is.   

[Ronn W]

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/852712/laguna-10-fusion-134hp-36-fence-cast-iron-wings-with-riving-knife.aspx

This is what I have.  Actually I have the previous version.  Very happy with it but it is 120v.

[HuxleyWood]

39 minutes ago, bleedinblue said:

I absolutely, without a doubt, would NOT square up a large tabletop on a table saw.  I don't care how big the table saw is.   

 

Most of the medium to large sliders would perform that function easily, the biggest issue would be just getting the glue up on the carriage.  Though I wouldn't bother with a cabinet saw, that job is begging for a tracksaw unless you have a slider, and even then the tracksaw is still a better option in my book.

 

 

[bbaude]

OK now we're getting somewhere.  I looked around.  The Festool is about $600, the Dewalt around $400.  Opinions on a tracksaw?  Looks ideal for squaring up.  Doesn't help much with making tenons but gotta start somewhere.

[shaneymack]

OK now we're getting somewhere.  I looked around.  The Festool is about $600, the Dewalt around $400.  Opinions on a tracksaw?  Looks ideal for squaring up.  Doesn't help much with making tenons but gotta start somewhere.

Festool ts55 is pretty much the best out there. Its got the most bells and whistles and the best warranty. If you can afford it, go with the Festool. The dewalt is not even an option, It has a terrible plunge mechanism. And who really wants to own an ugly yellow saw

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[bleedinblue]

Tracksaws are extremely popular here and you won't find anyone who says to not get one.  The Festool TS55 is the most popular, probably the best, and the most expensive of the four'ish most popular.  If that's too pricey, get the Makita.  If you are on a real tight budget, get the Grizzly (but check out Youtube for a few minor modifications that it needs)

Guys who have the Dewalt like it.  Like Shane, the plunge mechanism looks awkward to me.  I didn't consider it an option when I bought my TS last month.

[gee-dub]

1 hour ago, bbaude said:

OK now we're getting somewhere.  I looked around.  The Festool is about $600, the Dewalt around $400.  Opinions on a tracksaw?  Looks ideal for squaring up.  Doesn't help much with making tenons but gotta start somewhere.

 

1 hour ago, shaneymack said:

Festool ts55 is pretty much the best out there. Its got the most bells and whistles and the best warranty. If you can afford it, go with the Festool. The dewalt is not even an option, It has a terrible plunge mechanism. And who really wants to own an ugly yellow saw

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No tablesaw thread would be complete without either the EZ-Smart or Festool camps chiming in .  A good tracksaw is a great way to breakdown large panels if that will be a frequent activity for you. 

Like folks who pick up a $300 lathe though, the cost does not end with that purchase.  You will, of course need a way to confirm that the tracksaw track is square with the edge you are referencing from; see where this is going?  You will be pre-disposed to return to the well again and again if shaneymack is an example.  

You all know I'm just funnin', right?  Going back for related accessories or enhancements is the rule for many parts of our craft; anybody got only one hand plane or one chisel?

If you pursue the track saw path, your large panel and other types of cuts will be handled.  If you want to squeeze some more mileage out of your job site saw you could consider something like this:

This would not be a zero cost option with a good fence running in the $300 range but, it would add mass and rigidity to what is (no offense) basically a skillsaw mounted to a table.  This may be a good example of my description of myself (in the past) throwing almost as much money at something as it would cost to just buy (my phrase) "a real one".

I have learned over the years that I do well when I set a 60% rule for myself.  If what I am contemplating is 60% of the cost of doing what I would really like to do, I just save a little while and buy "a real one". 

There are a lot of tool categories that fit this model.  Why pay $600 to almost get there and be disgruntled and frustrated with many operation.  I have a few tools I went the full %100 on and I smile every time I walk up to them. 

I am not trying to part you from your hard earned cash.  I am just trying to spare you from the mistakes I made along the way.  I wish this for everyone.

[Woodenskye]

For breaking down sheet goods, I would also say the track saw is best suited for this task.  I would even prefer a track saw over trying to break down a full sheet on even the best cabinet saw.  If you have the space, you could make a new stand for the table saw, which if designed right could give you more work area.  One example would be the Paulk workbench, and a Google search would yield other options I'm sure.

[shaneymack]

You will be pre-disposed to return to the well again and again if shaneymack is an example.  

Thats the fun part!

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[wtnhighlander]

Just to point out a quick alternative to get you by, sheet goods or panels can be cut straight and square with a standard circular saw and a straightedge or shop-built guide. Of course a real track saw does plunge cuts better, and has far better ways to control dust, but $600 seems a lot to spend if you aren't doing those operations frequently.

[bbaude]

Like I said earlier, my biggest problem right now has been making square cross cuts.  In particular is this cut I have been struggling to make where a bread board would be up against it.  Seems like a track saw would be good for that.  I have zero experience there though, as you can tell, I had been thinking the table saw is the tool of choice there.  Long term, I probably need some sort of solution to make the deck larger on my table saw anyway.

[Sac]

Then I think that your best option right now would to be get the new table saw.  You said earlier that you don't plan on doing lots of stuff with sheet goods, and that you are looking to get just more accurate square cuts.  Go for the saw.  Add the tracks later if you feel the need for it.  As for the table top, go get a nice straight edge and use a circular saw and cut it on top of a 2" thick piece of styrofoam insulation.  I did that for a while before I made the jump to the track saw.  But topic was about the table saw so lets get back to that.

Do you have 220V available to you in your shop?  I only ask this, because the price range that the Jet saw is in, is the same price range that 220 saw are in.  You could get this Grizzly saw and still have money left over for a good miter gauge and enough still to build a nice sled to cut that table top you are looking to do.  Heck, you could get this one with a fence that isn't quite as nice as the first I listed, and still have money left over to get a track saw if you really wanted to.  You mentioned that space might be an issue, you get get this one with a router table extension and save a little more room in your shop, but leave you win no extra cash for other things.  Lots of options.

[bbaude]

Yeah, I can do 220 or 110.  I have 220 in already for the dust collection system.  I would just need to do a little math with peak amp draw on both and make sure the breaker (and wire size) allowed for it.

@Sac In looking at the one priced at 825, can I drop in more table extensions on the right-hand side?  Or is that the maximum as shown?

[gee-dub]

Sorry, too much coffee . . . forgot to add some thoughts on rip capacity.  I had a hybrid that came with a full-on Beisemeyer fence.  The only problem was that it had a 30" rip capacity which I found too short much of the time.  I shifted the fence tube to the right one set of holes which gave it a 40" rip capacity which I found adequate with very rare exceptions.

My current saw came as a 36" or a 52".  I wasn't sure if the 36" would prove to be adequate and I sure didn't want to go back to the frustration of the shorter length.  The cost difference was minimal (and you can shorten a fence all you want) so I got the 52".  This was the right move for me. YMMV.

[Sac]

@bbaude, you can build an extension table to the right that will fit in there no problem. If you really wanted to, you could build a removable extension to put even more onto it.  Just make sure that you support it.  It does have a 30" rip capacity so you will be limited to that with your fence.  You could do what @gee-dub did and maybe slide them over or drill some different holes to get a little more rip capacity out of it.  

As for sharing the 220 circuit, you may be better off running another.  But if you are looking at the hybrid, then just run that on its own 120 circuit and you should be fine.