D&W King Bed - Walnut & White Oak

[Eric.]

4 hours ago, Denette said:

 

I've used my Dewalt 621 plunge router horizontally for loose tenons before. I made an auxiliary fence out of ½" MDF that was about 8"x5", which gave it plenty of stability. I used clamps as stops on the left and right, and just left the plunge loose as I moved back and forth, applying a little more pressure with each pass. It worked very well for me.

Oh I've made loose tenons in end grain several times in the past...that's not the part that gives me the willies...it's doing it at the end of such a long board.  I'd have to lock it in my leg vise standing vertically, then I'd have to stand on a step stool to do the routing.  That's not impossible by any means...a little dicey but surely doable.  I just didn't give it much consideration since I had the Domzilla option in my back pocket.  But if I didn't, that's what I would have done...and I'm sure I could have pulled it off.  With a Xanax or two for breakfast.

There's no way on earth I'd try to use the tenon jig on the table saw with the board standing vertically...especially with the big bed rail parts...they're heavy and that would be extremely dangerous IMO.

If I had enough outboard space to the left of my table saw, I would have just used a dado stack with the board laying flat to create the tenons like I do most of the time.  But my miter station is to the left of my saw, so I only have about 5' of clearance to the left of my blade...about a foot short.  It's almost never an issue with the average sized project, but this one wasn't average sized.

[Pondhockey]

I've never tried to cut a tenon with a table saw.  (For context, my entire mortise and tenon repertoire is about 20 pairs, all in the last few months.)

But I cut tenons with the bandsaw, not on 7 foot boards, but I have cut them (and will, again soon) on 4-5ft boards.

Why use a table saw?  (And why no mention of the band saw?)

[Eric.]

1 hour ago, Pondhockey said:

I've never tried to cut a tenon with a table saw.  (For context, my entire mortise and tenon repertoire is about 20 pairs, all in the last few months.)

But I cut tenons with the bandsaw, not on 7 foot boards, but I have cut them (and will, again soon) on 4-5ft boards.

Why use a table saw?  (And why no mention of the band saw?)

For average sized parts I find the dado stack on the table saw to be the fastest, easiest, and most precise way to create tenons.  Crisp shoulders.

How do you cut your shoulders at the bandsaw?  I've done cheeks before but I've always done the shoulders at the TS.

[bgreenb]

Just wanted to throw this out there - it's a moot point because having access to the domzilla means the choice of how to do the tenons is clear - but if you wanted to cut mortises for loose tenons in the ends of long boards like that, you could do it horizontally, even without the setup that Denette suggested above.  Just clamp the board flat to your bench, and use an edge guide referenced off the top of the board.  Gravity will keep the edge guide engaged to the board, so you really only have to apply pressure against the end of the piece.   You could also clamp a scrap board to the bottom face of the board if you're worried about tipping.

Certainly not the easiest or most ideal way to do it, but plenty safe and effective IMO for someone without a domzilla.  

[Eric.]

Definitely possible.  But it makes my brown eye pucker just thinking about it...especially with a router as heavy as an OF1400.

[bgreenb]

3 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Definitely possible.  But it makes my brown eye pucker just thinking about it...especially with a router as heavy as an OF1400.

Oh yeah. You know how I feel about handheld routing even for routine stuff. 

[Eric.]

26 minutes ago, Lester Burnham said:

That's kinda how I did it for the tenons on the bed I made. I clamped a stop and just worked my way back to it a little at a time.

I think Brian was talking about plunging mortises for loose tenons in the ends of the rails, but yours is a perfectly acceptable method as well.  You have to be really careful about setup so your shoulders are the same on all four sides of the board...but you can always err on the safe side by making sure your shoulder on the show face is just slightly closer to the end of the tenon than on the non-show side (by slightly I'm talking one thou)...that way if there's any gap anywhere, it's mostly hidden.  Marking gauge comes in real handy in this situation.

My main concern with that technique is getting tearout at the shoulder when routing.  A sharp down-cut spiral bit helps...still risky and I prefer the table saw with an ATB blade or dado stack for super clean, crisp shoulders.  But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

[Guest]

Beautiful  thanks for the info.  brian

[Pondhockey]

1 hour ago, Eric. said:

For average sized parts I find the dado stack on the table saw to be the fastest, easiest, and most precise way to create tenons.  Crisp shoulders.

How do you cut your shoulders at the bandsaw?  I've done cheeks before but I've always done the shoulders at the TS.

I don't have a dado stack; I do cut dado's, but one kerf at a time :-(  I guess I can see how you do that, but adjusting the height of the dado stack sounds tricky.

On the bandsaw, if I'm using long stock (of course short is no problem) I use a roller stand, sometimes clamp the stock to a larger piece that is registered at the end, and slide it against the (shop made) fence.

 

[Eric.]

7 minutes ago, Pondhockey said:

I don't have a dado stack; I do cut dado's, but one kerf at a time :-(  I guess I can see how you do that, but adjusting the height of the dado stack sounds tricky.

Nah, you just dial it in nudge by nudge with a test board.  You can get pretty damn close to perfect right off the dado stack.  Err on the fat side and clean up with a rabbet or shoulder plane if you need to.

I'm still not quite understanding how you cut your shoulders on the bandsaw?...the cheeks I get, not the shoulders...

[treeslayer]

36 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I don't have a dado stack; I do cut dado's, but one kerf at a time

there are always several ways to accomplish any task in the shop, but as @Eric. says a dado stack is the way to go, test piece and sneak up on it till you get it right and make your cuts, get a good dado set, you won't regret it. 

[Pondhockey]

It sounds like I'll come out of this with an understanding of a better way to do tenons.  However, I would like not to distract from a thread about Eric's beautiful project and the heartfelt background story.  I'll look for another location for the tenon discussion!

[Eric.]

23 minutes ago, Pondhockey said:

It sounds like I'll come out of this with an understanding of a better way to do tenons.  However, I would like not to distract from a thread about Eric's beautiful project and the heartfelt background story.  I'll look for another location for the tenon discussion!

Ah, no worries about that.  I'm happy the thread lives on.  They take whatever course they take, and die of their own volition.  It doesn't bother me at all...it's all woodworking.

[Dknapp34]

Just catching up to this one. Fantastic piece, Eric. Not that I would expect anything less. Love those panels. 

On 5/14/2017 at 0:03 AM, Eric. said:

Thanks man.  I actually think they conflict a little, at least in style.  The bed is heavy and masculine, while the nightstands are feminine and graceful.  But I don't care...my entire house is a hodge-podge of styles and species with no consistent theme.  I just go where the wind blows me.

If everything matches too well, it looks like a theme park, not a home. A nice mix of styles is a better look, IMO. 

[Pondhockey]

Erik, can you say a bit more about the frame and panel construction?  Are the panels loose in the frames?  Did you route an inset in the walnut to take the frame?

 

[Added in edit:  WoodWhisperer take on tenons with the bandsaw.  Very close to what I did.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/tenons-on-the-bandsaw/    ]

[Eric.]

11 hours ago, Pondhockey said:

Erik, can you say a bit more about the frame and panel construction?  Are the panels loose in the frames?  Did you route an inset in the walnut to take the frame?

The frame and panel construction in the bed is almost exactly like the construction in your typical cabinet door...mortise & tenon for the frame parts, and grooves in the rails and stiles to receive the tongue of the raised-panel.  You have to account for movement if you're using hardwood panels (1/8" gap on each long grain end of the panel is plenty)...if you used plywood you don't have to worry about it...just cut to size and glue it in or let it float, either way.

The only real difference between the bed F&P and a door F&P is having to transfer your groove location in the rails/stiles to the legs, since your router fence will have to be adjusted to accommodate the different depth from fence to bit on the router.  To do this I just do a dry assembly, and use a marking knife to scribe the location of the grooves in the legs, then adjust my router fence/bit by eye.

11 hours ago, Pondhockey said:

[Added in edit:  WoodWhisperer take on tenons with the bandsaw.  Very close to what I did.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/tenons-on-the-bandsaw/    ]

Got it.  One thing to note about that video though...be aware that Marc is running a Resaw King blade on his bandsaw, which is capable of making table saw smooth cuts.  I keep a pretty aggressive blade on both of my bandsaws, and I wouldn't really trust either of them to produce a crisp enough shoulder on my tenon.  For the cheeks it would be fine because you can't see the cheeks...but the shoulders are totally visible and if there's any roughness in that cut at all, it's gonna show.  So be aware of that.  It's one of the primary reasons that I prefer using the table saw...absolutely flawless shoulders...as long as you're using the appropriate blade (or stack).

[fastev]

Eric, your work never ceases to amaze me.  Thanks for posting.

[Steve B Anderson]

Awesome! Great job Eric! 

[Unknown craftsman]

I'm not sure if I was born onto this forum when you posted your Project Eric very good looking project.A good use of premium Walunt!

[bbaude]

@Eric.  Could you elaborate a little on general measurements of the head and foot boards? looking for some simple understanding of height and thickness.  if you are willing, some general understanding of the various pieces of the headboard would help with context.  Thanks!

[Eric.]

2 hours ago, bbaude said:

@Eric.  Could you elaborate a little on general measurements of the head and foot boards? looking for some simple understanding of height and thickness.  if you are willing, some general understanding of the various pieces of the headboard would help with context.  Thanks!

Sure, no problem.  Before I do though, are you building a king bed?  How thick is your mattress, and are you planning on keeping or ditching the box springs?

[Alan G]

Just came across this. Really great work!!!

Glad no one was hurt when the tree hit and that you were able to rebuild the house. Our previous house (in NJ) was met with a giant White Oak during Hurricane Sandy. We rebuilt it in 4 months, sold it and moved to MI. Living in a hotel for a few weeks helps you stop and reassess whats important in life.

I hope your experience dealing with the insurance co was better than mine. Jerks.

 

[bbaude]

1 hour ago, Eric. said:

Sure, no problem.  Before I do though, are you building a king bed?  How thick is your mattress, and are you planning on keeping or ditching the box springs?

Eric,

The mattress in question is a Queen size bed.  Plan to keep the box spring.  I'm trying to get a general understand of height and materials and then will take the time to draw it all out on sketchup.  This step helps me organize my thoughts.

[Eric.]

1 hour ago, bbaude said:

Eric,

The mattress in question is a Queen size bed.  Plan to keep the box spring.  I'm trying to get a general understand of height and materials and then will take the time to draw it all out on sketchup.  This step helps me organize my thoughts.

 

Okay, cool.  Well I can get you exact measurements if you want, but they're gonna be pretty meaningless since you're building a queen.  Also you'll have to adjust your plans accordingly if you're keeping the box spring since this will change the position of whatever support system you use within the bed rails.

Did you know that box springs are completely unnecessary when used with most modern mattresses?  Box springs were invented when mattresses had very little internal structure, and they were needed to prevent the mattress from deforming under the weight of a sleeping human.  Modern mattresses have internal spring or coil systems that make the box springs gratuitous (as long as it's adequately supported by slats), and they're mostly included with a mattress purchase simply to lift the mattress farther off the ground.  You might consider losing it if your particular mattress allows, and you can just raise your support system to make up the difference in height.  Our mattress is about 14" tall...so if I had kept our box spring our mattress would have sat considerably higher than it does the way I built it.  I personally don't like tall beds that you basically have to heave your ass up into.  I'm fairly short though - 5'8", and my wife is shorter than me.

Anyway, I'll give you the thickness of the parts...the rest of the measurements really need to be taken directly from your mattress and adjusted according to your personal taste...height of mattress, headboard and footboard are pretty subjective.

legs: 3.5" square

bed rails: 8" wide by 1-5/8" thick

headboard/footboard rails/stiles: 1-3/8" thick

raised panels: 5/8" thick

slat supports: 1-7/8" thick

slats: 3/4" thick

 

1 hour ago, Alan G said:

Just came across this. Really great work!!!

Glad no one was hurt when the tree hit and that you were able to rebuild the house. Our previous house (in NJ) was met with a giant White Oak during Hurricane Sandy. We rebuilt it in 4 months, sold it and moved to MI. Living in a hotel for a few weeks helps you stop and reassess whats important in life.

I hope your experience dealing with the insurance co was better than mine. Jerks.

 

 

Actually, our insurance company was fantastic from start to finish.  My wife is a teacher, so we have Horace Mann as our insurer.  Their customer base is comprised entirely of educators, and they basically work on reputation...so positive experiences are very important to them.  Not once did I have to argue with them about "doing the right thing."  We got lucky with our general contractor, too...they were great guys.  A few of the subs, on the other hand...well, let's just say I had to do a considerable amount of hand-holding and making them return to fix what wasn't done the right way the first time.  Par for the course.  But ultimately the work was done in a satisfactory way.  It took all summer to do it, but it got done.

[sheperd80]

Excellent in every aspect Eric, a true heirloom.

 

Can you elaborate on the finish? What product? Did you prefinish any of it? Sorry if these were answered and i missed it.

 

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