D&W King Bed - Walnut & White Oak

[Eric.]

9 hours ago, sheperd80 said:

Can you elaborate on the finish? What product? Did you prefinish any of it? Sorry if these were answered and i missed it.

Thanks man.  Boring old ARS satin.  My last dance with her for a while.  ARS has been mastered, time to move on to greener pastures.  I'm transitioning into shellac, with a little help from my friends.

Yes the entire bed was prefinished, which made it WAY easier and resulted in a nearly flawless finish.  I prefinish whenever possible when wiping ARS.

I put a nice gouge in the right front leg a couple days ago.  I brushed up against it and the clip from my pocket knife caught the corner.  Ouch.  Let the "character" begin.

[sheperd80]

Shellac, eh? Its an interesting finish, aside from using it like primer ive only top coated with it a few times and found it more resilient than people seem to think. Recently discovered ARS though and am thoroughly impressed.

 

Did u mask off the legs were they meet the foot and headboard rails, or just finish right on over it? And if its all finished are you just relying on the dominoes for strength or perhaps using epoxy instead of wood glue?

 

Sorry for the 20 questions. This is an area that causes me issues.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

 

[Eric.]

44 minutes ago, sheperd80 said:

Sorry for the 20 questions. This is an area that causes me issues.

No worries.  Without questions there wouldn't be much info exchanged here.

I mask off all the joints before I finish.  I use blue tape of a width slightly skinnier than the joint's surface area, so that I make sure the finish will cover all the exposed parts post-joinery, but there's still plenty of raw wood available at each joint.  Obviously the Dominoes provide about 90% of the strength of the joint, but I like to utilize as much surface area available as possible.  No reason not to, even though the end grain-to-long grain areas aren't nearly as important.

I've pretty much been convinced by people who know that ARS - while awesome and very easy to master - is basically a novice finish.  Shellac is next level in terms of clarity and versatility, but it's much more complicated and challenging to learn.  It's an enormous wormhole and I've only just begun to scratch the surface.  Same with spraying...I've had my Fuji MM4 for several years and I've never had it out of the box.  It's time to branch out.  After shellac I plan to learn about lacquers.

[sheperd80]

No worries.  Without questions there wouldn't be much info exchanged here.

I mask off all the joints before I finish.  I use blue tape of a width slightly skinnier than the joint's surface area, so that I make sure the finish will cover all the exposed parts post-joinery, but there's still plenty of raw wood available at each joint.  Obviously the Dominoes provide about 90% of the strength of the joint, but I like to utilize as much surface area available as possible.  No reason not to, even though the end grain-to-long grain areas aren't nearly as important.

I've pretty much been convinced by people who know that ARS - while awesome and very easy to master - is basically a novice finish.  Shellac is next level in terms of clarity and versatility, but it's much more complicated and challenging to learn.  It's an enormous wormhole and I've only just begun to scratch the surface.  Same with spraying...I've had my Fuji MM4 for several years and I've never had it out of the box.  It's time to branch out.  After shellac I plan to learn about lacquers.

 

Thanks for the feedback Eric. I considered doing my most recent piece that way but it has alot of midfield dominoed 18" long butt-joints and would've been a pain to mask. Thankfully ARS is pretty forgiving so with careful application, sanding the finished case hasnt been too terrible.

 

Have fun with your adventures in finishing! If you think shellac is a wormhole just wait until you get into the lacquers. Im sure youll enjoy the fast dry times of both after being a varnish guy. Start to finished finish in the same day, whaaaaa?!?!? That said, ive never seen a finish that makes me wanna eat the furniture like ARS does. Novice or not, it makes walnut look so delicious.

 

But i see your point. You have plateau'd and need new challenges, good on ya. Share your screw ups here as you go!

 

 

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[Eric.]

12 minutes ago, sheperd80 said:

ARS does. Novice or not, it makes walnut look so delicious.

I agree.  Cherry too.  Maple, not as much, although it does pop the figure insanely.  I'm not as big of a fan of ARS on a lot of the exotics, especially ones with coarser grain.  It's not bad on bubinga but I think it looks horrible on wenge.  Of course I think that's more about having a film on a very open-pored wood so it might not be fair to blame ARS for that since shellac and lacquers are films too.  I'm moving farther and farther away from exotics in general though.  I still use them but I can tell I'm settling into domestics and mahogany as my favorite species to work with and look at.  What a stroke of luck...that we happened to settle on the one chunk of earth that grows the best lumber for woodworkers to work with.  Those Aussies are poor unfortunate bastards in that regard.

12 minutes ago, sheperd80 said:

Share your screw ups here as you go!

Will do.  I'm sure there will be plenty to share.

[G S Haydon]

The oak panels are well framed by the clean and handsome walnut. The oak is really satisfying to look at, if the photos don't do it justice it must be very special in the flesh. Not familiar with the D&W bed, and will look it up, but yours does look excellent. Good heads up on the head board, hopefully that's lodged in my mind if I ever get round to making a bed in this style.

[Eric.]

1 hour ago, G S Haydon said:

The oak panels are well framed by the clean and handsome walnut. The oak is really satisfying to look at, if the photos don't do it justice it must be very special in the flesh. Not familiar with the D&W bed, and will look it up, but yours does look excellent. Good heads up on the head board, hopefully that's lodged in my mind if I ever get round to making a bed in this style.

Graham - really good to hear from you buddy.  Hope all is well and wish you would poke your head in more often.

Got any projects in the works these days?

Cheers!

[G S Haydon]

Hi Eric, I'm doing good great, clearly you are too, aside from the odd tree! Will try and swing by more often. Have something in mind, it'll be a while but I'll post some info when it's done. 

[estesbubba]

Can't believe this is the first time I've seen this thread but that bed is gorgeous Eric! Your attention to detail is always top notch and you wiping ARS shows your patience (or maybe insanity).

You mentioned later in the thread about trying shellac sometime. The walnut would have looked great spraying garnet shellac and waterborne but I'm not sure how well the white oak would look. My guess is pretty good since garnet shellac + waterborne is pretty close to an oil wiping varnish in my tests and would look similar to your ARS results. Of course your ARS finishes always look great but some day you need to try that Fuji 

So what was the pucker factor when gluing up the headboard and footboard? When I did mine the dry assemblies went great but of course the headboard had some panic when gluing but ended up fine. I wish I had a Domizilla for mine but ended up using my 500. I gave my panels a lot of room to move so hopefully I don't have any problems. Since mine is a platform bed and headboard and footboard don't support any weight. 

[Eric.]

Thanks Mike.

27 minutes ago, estesbubba said:

some day you need to try that Fuji 

I'm taking the leap with the project I'm working on now.  I'll be spraying SB shellac and I already bought the flakes so there's no going back.

I prefinished all the parts so wiping ARS was no big deal.  My biggest beef with wiping is getting into nooks and crannies and still accomplishing a clean finish...but prefinishing alleviates those issues.  But it's definitely time to go to the next level and the time is now.

The glue-up was a PITA but it went okay.  I really wanted to use epoxy which would have made it a breeze, but I was nervous about squeeze-out on prefinished parts since there doesn't seem to be a safe way to clean it up without potentially damaging the finish.  So I went with TB and the race was on.  I glued up in steps as much as possible and really only did one part at a time, unclamped, glued another...just to be safe.  Which made the glue-up take much longer than it should have but better safe than sorry.  I did pull one bonehead move when I didn't notice one of the rags I was using for padding slipped off and I dented the top of the footboard.  But you can't see the dent in the pics so it's not there.

[estesbubba]

10 minutes ago, Eric. said:

So I went with TB and the race was on.  I glued up in steps as much as possible and really only did one part at a time, unclamped, glued another...just to be safe.  Which made the glue-up take much longer than it should have but better safe than sorry.  I did pull one bonehead move when I didn't notice one of the rags I was using for padding slipped off and I dented the top of the footboard.  But you can't see the dent in the pics so it's not there.

I went with TB also and used backerod instead of spaceballs to give my panels a lot of room to move which made my glueup a PITA. Unlike you, I did all mine in one shot and had no room for error to get the rails to align with the legs. Maybe not the smartest approach but it ended up working out. 

And like you I had dents from the clamps but in visible areas so it was a lot of stream ironing...plus a dent where the backerod was causing problems during glueup and a rail dropped.

If you don't have the 3M PPS system for your Fuji, while not necessary, it does add several nice features to it (you'll forget the stupid price after using). I like the 1.0mm best for both shellac and waterbornes. If you have any questions on the Fuji feel free to PM me. Jewitt's "Spray Finishing Made Simple" book and DVD are a great resource. 

[Eric.]

13 minutes ago, estesbubba said:

If you don't have the 3M PPS system for your Fuji, while not necessary, it does add several nice features to it (you'll forget the stupid price after using). I like the 1.0mm best for both shellac and waterbornes. If you have any questions on the Fuji feel free to PM me. Jewitt's "Spray Finishing Made Simple" book and DVD are a great resource. 

Ouch!  Those are some nasty dents.  Mine wasn't quite that bad but because I'd already finished, I couldn't steam it out...otherwise I would have for sure.  Would have been a huge ordeal to repair it.  Oh well, I was over it an hour later because I was mentally DONE with the project by that time.  Had a couple tokes and went to my happy place.  Screw it.

I already bought the PPS system...it's also still in the Amazon box it came in because I don't want the Fuji to get jealous.   I've still got quite a bit of work left to do on this project, and some work to do in the basement before I can even put it in its place...so it'll be a while.  I'm hoping to be done by the end of the summer, and I'm not gonna think about finishing until it's time to finish.  I don't like change and this is a big one for me.  I've got ARS down to a science and on one hand it feels kind of stupid to fix something that ain't broken, but on the other hand I need to broaden my woodworking horizons...so I'm gonna.

[Chet]

1 hour ago, estesbubba said:

Jewitt's "Spray Finishing Made Simple" book and DVD are a great resource. 

I will second this, especially the DVD.  The book is basically the script for the DVD.

[Coop]

+3 Thanks to Chet and Mike! 

[Eric.]

I read Jewitt's Finishing book, and I wasn't that impressed.  Too basic.  I guess the spraying book might be a little more in-depth since it's a single topic.  I find I learn more asking questions to those who know...or watching videos.  I glaze over when I read textbooks...just like when I was in school.  Yawn.

[estesbubba]

Jeff's Spray Finishing book is much better than his general finishing book. I watched the entire DVD (even air compressor parts), then read the book, then watched the DVD again. I will still watch parts of the DVD and use the book as a reference, especially for the recommended tip sizes for all the different finishes. I also built the knockdown spray booth and rotating table & cart from the book which are very helpful. 

[Eric.]

Ah, DVD...now yer speakin' my language...the language of the mouth-breather.  Might have to give it a gander.  I can put the book with the rest of them that I spent ten minutes "reading."

[estesbubba]

Since I'm doing those QS sycamore test boards I decided to also do some natural white oak. Garnet shellac ended up looking like crap on white oak but super blonde looked good. Here is walnut and white oak both finished with super blonde and waterborne poly. 

I personally think garnet shellac looks a little better on walnut but super blonde looks good. 

[Eric.]

3 hours ago, estesbubba said:

Since I'm doing those QS sycamore test boards I decided to also do some natural white oak. Garnet shellac ended up looking like crap on white oak but super blonde looked good. Here is walnut and white oak both finished with super blonde and waterborne poly. 

 

I personally think garnet shellac looks a little better on walnut but super blonde looks good. 

I think D&W uses orange shellac on his walnut.  Got any of that laying around to test with?

[estesbubba]

8 hours ago, Eric. said:

I think D&W uses orange shellac on his walnut.  Got any of that laying around to test with?

I only use super blonde and garnet these days and guessing mixing these two together would get you close to orange. The place I get my shellac from does sell orange. 

http://wellermart.com/t/shellac

[Eric.]

51 minutes ago, estesbubba said:

I only use super blonde and garnet these days and guessing mixing these two together would get you close to orange. The place I get my shellac from does sell orange. 

http://wellermart.com/t/shellac

Have you ever used Jewitt's flakes from the Homestead site?  I'm just wondering what justifies his price, which is almost double (at least at the current wellermart sale price).  Everyone always says his stuff is the best, but I've never gotten an explanation why.

[estesbubba]

51 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Have you ever used Jewitt's flakes from the Homestead site?  I'm just wondering what justifies his price, which is almost double (at least at the current wellermart sale price).  Everyone always says his stuff is the best, but I've never gotten an explanation why.

I have used Homestead's flakes and they seem no different than the Wellermart I've been using for the past three years with no problems. As long as shellac dissolves, dries hard, and sands to dust I don't see what any differences there could be. Actually the Wellermart super blonde I used for the those test boards was mixed a year ago and dried fast and sanded fine. I think @Chet used Wellermart flakes on his bookcase which turned out great. 

I have no idea why Homestead, Rockler, and Woodcraft charge double unless they have their own special bugs! 

I know I have cherry test boards with SB, garnet, and 50/50 SB/garnet. I can't remember if I made a walnut with 50/50 SB/garnet but I'll check tonight. 

PS - Buy a cheap coffee grinder which will help your flakes dissolve a lot faster. 

[estesbubba]

2 hours ago, Mike. said:

I shot a bunch of cherry sample boards with orange and garnet shellac.  I hated it.  It muddied the grain too much.  Garnet is closer to opaque than tranlucent.   Think pigment stain vs. dye stain.

My experience (which is really just an opinion) has been just the opposite with darker shellacs and cherry and find it enhances the grain and gives nice depth. Now I shoot a quick coat of a 2# cut just to give it color and don't build with it. After that satin waterborne poly. 

[AceHoleInOne]

3 hours ago, Mike. said:

The flakes I bought from shellac.net took days to dissolve.  Maybe Jeff pre-grinds his flakes.  I don't know.

Hey Mike, do ya have a little coffee grinder. Works great on shellac flakes that's what I do. If your real anal, grind the flakes down to a powder. Dissolves quite fast. I would still say about an hour. 

 

-Ace-

[Eric.]

6 hours ago, Mike. said:

I shot a bunch of cherry sample boards with orange and garnet shellac.  I hated it.  It muddied the grain too much.

Have you tried the orange on walnut?  I'm like you - totally satisfied with varnish on walnut...but I do love the glow that D&W's walnut always seems to have...and I think he must use orange (I can't remember if I read that or if I'm just imagining).  I'm just curious about it.