Newbie Looking for Used Table Saw

[litesaber5]

Hi,

I'm really new to woodworking. Like really new. So please be gentle.

After many years of wanting to start home projects but being limited to living in a condo and not having any room we moved to the burbs and I now have a garage and the want.

My tools consist of lots of basic hand tools for work around the house stuff. But this past Black Friday I purchased a Dewalt DW715 and a Dewalt DCD996B hammer drill. 

(I am remodeling our guest bathroom so I am not a complete neophyte...just really close to one!!)

 

I want to start making small projects and work my way up to drawers and cabinets and who knows what else. 

 

Which brings me to my question. I want to buy a used table saw but I really don't know how best to attack buying one. 

 

After having read a bunch of reviews many indicated that the Craftsman 113.xx series saws would be a great starter saw.

 

I looked on CL and found 2 in my general area (~1 hour out).

The first one for $80 is a Craftsman 100 10" contractors series saw with 10x27 cast iron extensions. it also has a router table with router and if I wanted I could also pick up a Makita 9924DB 3x24 belt sander for an extra 50) 

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/d/10-inch-craftsman-table-saw/6412718508.html

 

The second one for 175 is a 113.xxx model and looks to be in very good condition. 

Based on the posting, it has been serviced and he is offering to replace the drive belt as well.

https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/d/craftsman-contractors-style/6383399463.html

 

 

What should i look for if it does make sense for me to go out and kick the tires.

I know I should bring a level and a square to make sure everything is true. other then that and making some cuts, what should I look out for? 

 

Also does it even make sense to peruse either of these? Should I look at another brand?

 

Thanks!

[Tom King]

I looked at your Rockford CL, and you have the best selection of table saws I've ever seen!!    There are two sliders, and three 66's, not to mention almost anything else!

I'd suggest not even looking at the Crapsman saws any more, and if you're stuck in that price range, get this one:

https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/d/delta-table-saw/6358547807.html

[litesaber5]

Thanks for responding!

What about the craftsman makes it not worthwhile? 

What makes should I be looking at?

Thanks!

A

[Tom King]

I expect some who have owned Craftsman table saws will chime in.   As simple as the tool seems, it's important that everything can be aligned perfectly, and stay in alignment.  It's also very important that parts that are adjustable move into the next required position easily, and accurately.  There are multiple reasons why those of us who use the big, heavy saws use a big, heavy saw.  Heavy is a good thing to have in a table saw, but some compromises are often made because they have to be moved.

If I was looking for a table saw up there, I'd get one of those PM66's.

[litesaber5]

I understand the need for a substantial piece of equipment. Especially for safety. But as you said compromises are often made. And in this case i think $1500+ on a '66 may be a bit much especially starting off! Even if my wife doesn't flip i have no room in the garage for that sucker!

[Jfitz]

Hi - and welcome!

If you put a saw on a mobile base, you'd be surprised what you can fit into a garage   Seriously though....It might be helpful to know more about what you want to do with the saw...basic cross cuts of longer pieces?  Sheet goods (i.e. plywood) ? ripping long piece to width?

Regardless of the saw you select, I suggest you read up on as much safety related information and topics as you can.  

- Proper alignment of saw/fence/miter gauge.

- How to avoid kickback

- Table saw sleds - how to make one, how to use one. 

- push blocks/push-sticks (I suggest looking at the Grrripper).

- Aftermarket splitter (if the saw doesn't already have one).

 

[litesaber5]

16 minutes ago, Jfitz said:

Hi - and welcome!

If you put a saw on a mobile base, you'd be surprised what you can fit into a garage   Seriously though....It might be helpful to know more about what you want to do with the saw...basic cross cuts of longer pieces?  Sheet goods (i.e. plywood) ? ripping long piece to width?

Regardless of the saw you select, I suggest you read up on as much safety related information and topics as you can.  

- Proper alignment of saw/fence/miter gauge.

- How to avoid kickback

- Table saw sleds - how to make one, how to use one. 

- push blocks/push-sticks (I suggest looking at the Grrripper).

- Aftermarket splitter (if the saw doesn't already have one).

 

I would eventually like to make built-in shelving and cabinets and furniture for various rooms in my house

[Chet]

The biggest problem with the Craftsman saws is they weren't really built with cabinetry and furniture making in mind.  When you get in to that type of work you really want something that you can tune up and it will stay that way.  The ones you are looking at are going to have a certain amount of slop in the adjustable parts like the fence that are just going to be there because it has been used.  This can be a source of real frustration that can make woodworking very un-fun.  If you need to stay in the used market then the one Tom recommended in the rockford craigslist is a lot more saw and was built beefier right from the get go but may still take some work on your part to get it in good running order.  If you don't think that is something you want to wrestle with then another option would be to do a little saving and look at some of the entry level cabinet saws that Grizzly has.  There are also some folks here that are pretty happy with the larger saws that Ridgid has.  Just keep asking questions and you will get there. 

[Isaac]

Speaking of table saws, check out this beast

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/tls/d/powermatic-66-table-saw-5-hp/6414511844.html

a 5HP Powermatic for $900.

[Tom King]

I wouldn't want to run a VFD on a table saw.  It brings the motor up to speed very slowly.  It's kind of cool listening to the big bandsaw wind up.   It sounds like a jet turbine starting, but takes about 20 seconds to get up to speed.

There were two other single phase ones listed when I was looking earlier today.

[Isaac]

2 minutes ago, Tom King said:

I wouldn't want to run a VFD on a table saw.  It brings the motor up to speed very slowly.  It's kind of cool listening to the big bandsaw wind up.   It sounds like a jet turbine starting, but takes about 20 seconds to get up to speed.

There were two other single phase ones listed when I was looking earlier today.

Yeah it was really overkill for normal situations anyways.

[wtnhighlander]

1 hour ago, Tom King said:

I wouldn't want to run a VFD on a table saw.  It brings the motor up to speed very slowly.  It's kind of cool listening to the big bandsaw wind up.   It sounds like a jet turbine starting, but takes about 20 seconds to get up to speed.

There were two other single phase ones listed when I was looking earlier today.

Tom, the VFD should have a parameter called something like "Accel Rate" and "Decel Rate". Adjusting the Accel rate can give you a faster startup, within the current limits of your supply line.

[Coop]

4 hours ago, litesaber5 said:

I would eventually like to make built-in shelving and cabinets and furniture for various rooms in my house

If your “like to” is like my 20 yo plan to add a room to my house, then yes, the craftsman will suit you. If you’re serious about your intent, then an $80 ts should not even be considered. If you can navigate thru the search on this site better than me, there are several threads regarding a first ts. Good luck to ya and welcome to the forum.

[minorhero]

6 hours ago, litesaber5 said:

What should i look for if it does make sense for me to go out and kick the tires.

I know I should bring a level and a square to make sure everything is true. other then that and making some cuts, what should I look out for? 

 

Also does it even make sense to peruse either of these? Should I look at another brand?

 

Thanks!

So while I agree that you should avoid the craftsman saws if you can afford a little more I will say that plenty of people have used similar saws and made some very nice furniture with them. The main reason to buy something else to my mind has to do with either direct drive motors (some older craftsman use that system) which I do not like as much as belt drive for saws, and because a lot of these older craftsman saws were used pretty hard and replacement parts can not be found unless you part out another saw.

In your area the best bang for your buck appears to be this fellow:

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/tls/d/professional-table-saw-king/6396965827.html

That gets you a cabinet saw for the price of a contractor saw. They take up the same space but this one is a potential for being a "forever" saw as opposed to something you upgrade later.

After that its a toss-up between these two:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/d/jet-10-table-saw-with-stand/6413629654.html

https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/d/delta-10-inch-contractor/6409242538.html

Both are a very very similar though the delta is probably more then a decade newer. 

As for what to look for. Whatever saw you buy make sure the current owner is willing to turn it on and run some wood through it. If they won't do that then you don't want it. When the saw is turned on it should have a consistent noise (sounds a bit like a shriek) which is the motor vibrating and the saw blade disturbing the air. You do not want to hear any ticking noises. If you crouch down so you can look at the blade edge on (obviously standing back) and turn the saw on so the blade starts to spin you should not see the blade profile change shape. If it suddenly gets a lot wider when turned on then its either a bad arbor or bearing or both and it can be a bit of trouble if you are not familiar with fixing these issues.

Hope that helps.

[Tom King]

1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

Tom, the VFD should have a parameter called something like "Accel Rate" and "Decel Rate". Adjusting the Accel rate can give you a faster startup, within the current limits of your supply line.

I kniow it will do a whole lot more than I knkow what to do with it, but I never spent any time thinking about it.  I just followed the clear instructions from the supplier, and it worked perfectly at the first start button touch, so that was good enough for me.  We run that bandsaw hard for a couple of hours at the time, and the motor never gets warm, so the start up time doesn't matter at all.   I'll still stick to single phase motors for table saws.  I  never need more than 3hp for a table saw anyway.

[litesaber5]

1 hour ago, minorhero said:

So while I agree that you should avoid the craftsman saws if you can afford a little more I will say that plenty of people have used similar saws and made some very nice furniture with them. The main reason to buy something else to my mind has to do with either direct drive motors (some older craftsman use that system) which I do not like as much as belt drive for saws, and because a lot of these older craftsman saws were used pretty hard and replacement parts can not be found unless you part out another saw.

In your area the best bang for your buck appears to be this fellow:

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/tls/d/professional-table-saw-king/6396965827.html

That gets you a cabinet saw for the price of a contractor saw. They take up the same space but this one is a potential for being a "forever" saw as opposed to something you upgrade later.

After that its a toss-up between these two:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/tls/d/jet-10-table-saw-with-stand/6413629654.html

https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/d/delta-10-inch-contractor/6409242538.html

Both are a very very similar though the delta is probably more then a decade newer. 

As for what to look for. Whatever saw you buy make sure the current owner is willing to turn it on and run some wood through it. If they won't do that then you don't want it. When the saw is turned on it should have a consistent noise (sounds a bit like a shriek) which is the motor vibrating and the saw blade disturbing the air. You do not want to hear any ticking noises. If you crouch down so you can look at the blade edge on (obviously standing back) and turn the saw on so the blade starts to spin you should not see the blade profile change shape. If it suddenly gets a lot wider when turned on then its either a bad arbor or bearing or both and it can be a bit of trouble if you are not familiar with fixing these issues.

Hope that helps.

This is great! Thanks so much. The truth is I need to do a ton more research on this but that king looks pretty damn fine.

[woodbutcher]

10 hours ago, litesaber5 said:

This is great! Thanks so much. The truth is I need to do a ton more research on this but that king looks pretty damn fine.

That King saw looks an awful lot like a Grizzly. Id be interested to see if others agree. 

[drzaius]

I used to have a Jet like the one that @minorhero linked to & it was a very good contractor saw. I was able to easily tune it up & it stayed that way for 15 years. $500 is way too much though, probably double what it's worth. 

The Delta that @Tom King linked to looks good if your budget is really tight.

That Makita belt sander would be a great deal if it's in good working order. I've had one for about 35 years & it looks just like the ones they sell now. Mine's had lots of use & some abuse & still works like new.

[SirNot]

As a Craftsman owner, I wish that I could afford better right now.  I spend a lot of time setting up cuts to get everything just so, and even then, I will end up with not perfect enough cuts.  The fence, needs to be tightened and re-squared constantly.  I have to measure my spacing at the front edge of the blade and the back edge- they can differ by as much as 1/8.

I'm in your area, it would seem.  If you want to come and see one in action, you are welcome to.

[drzaius]

Bad fences seem to be, more than any other component, the curse of cheap table saws.

[wtnhighlander]

3 hours ago, drzaius said:

Bad fences seem to be, more than any other component, the curse of cheap table saws.

This. Many inexpensive saws can be vastly improved with an aftermarket fence. Unfortunately, that fence often costs more than the saw.

[Jfitz]

I had the Delta Hybrid saw posted by Tom K above (https://rockford.craigslist.org/tls/d/delta-table-saw/6358547807.html) and added a Biesemeyer fence to it (from before Delta bought Biesemeyer)  What a difference it made!  If that's not in the cards, then do a Google search for "shop made biesemeyer fence" to see what you can make for it. Should be applicable to any saw that has a poor fence.

[litesaber5]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. 

I emailed about the Delta and he said it was already sold. 

Also, the more i read the more it becomes apparent how important the fence on these things are.

Im  just outside Chicago and I dont want to drive all the way to Rockford (for a 3 hr round trip not including looking at the saw) only to find out there is some issue!

I have no doubt the Craig's List Gods will provide if i remain faithful and patient.

 

 

 

[minorhero]

1 hour ago, litesaber5 said:

Thanks everyone for all the advice. 

I emailed about the Delta and he said it was already sold. 

Also, the more i read the more it becomes apparent how important the fence on these things are.

Im  just outside Chicago and I dont want to drive all the way to Rockford (for a 3 hr round trip not including looking at the saw) only to find out there is some issue!

I have no doubt the Craig's List Gods will provide if i remain faithful and patient.

 

 

 

Craigslist God's are listening. You have lots of good options.

https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/d/tablesaw/6412948229.html

[litesaber5]

that looks really nice.

not to far away either.