Smoothing plane

[Tmize]

I’ve read a lot of his website. Good stuff. 

14 minutes ago, Tpt life said:

V3 WR does great work for me. So does vintage Stanley. D prefers the PMV-11. Is his blog in his signature? I cannot tell on mobile. 

 

[Tmize]

1 hour ago, derekcohen said:

 

Mouth size is important, but not what you think. If using a high cutting angle (55 degrees and above), a tight mouth makes absolutely no difference ... other than getting in the way. It definitely gets in the way of the chipbreaker if you close this down. With these setups, you must open the mouth. 

Try setting the chipbreaker close on the #4 - open the mouth by an extra 1-2mm, and then close the chipbreaker to about 0.4mm behind the edge of the blade. Further back than this and the method does not work when taking fine shavings. 

 

Regards from Perth

Derek

So once you get above 45* angle it put more friction down to the surface? Kinda of like if you put to steep a burr on a card scraper less than 80* to the surface makes it super tough to get a clean shaving. 

Ill try an opening the mouth a little bit and an see if I can get the chipbreaker down some more. The way I sent up me irons is I sharpen straight across an knock off the edges to eliminate track marks there is a slight camber but not much. 

[Pondhockey]

Question on blade width:  I have several #4, #5 Stanley Bailey planes (according to the stamp on the plane bodies.)  The online chart that I found claims that they should be 2" width.  

As I measure them, none of the mouths are as wide as 2".  The irons themselves vary between 1.8" and 1.9" (i.e. greater than 1-3/4", less than 2".)  Is this what you expect?  Is 1-3/4" the usual size for a #4 or a #5?  Are actual sizes different from nominal?

*************

The above is all horse manure - I mis measured my plane irons (severe, embarrassing blush.)

**************

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Pondhockey
Correct a mistake.

[Chestnut]

12 hours ago, Tmize said:

Well this has raise a question l haven’t thought much about with metallurgy of the blade. So I’ve upgraded all my original Stanley blades with wood river V3 blades an at the time it was a good improvement over stock. So my question is what makes the difference in steel types an what make one better than the other? Is it let’s say pmv-11 the steel they use is it a tighter grain steel so when it is sharpened and honed you get fewer microscopic knicks in the cutting edge? Which in turn reduces wear and also creates a sharper edge due to it is closer plane where the two angles meet at the point? 

I think you can put a pmv-11 blade in the LN planes and veritas has their own A-2 steel blades. So you really can go either way with both companies. If your comparing the A-2 of LN and the PMV-11 of Veritas they are goth going to sharpen to a very high quality edge. They are both high quality steels but the difference between them is a trade-off. I think the stock blade that came with my LN #4 has a slight edge over the PMV-11 for durability and longevity. It doesn't sharpen as fast though.

This is another one of those things that there are going to be 3 opinions the A-2 Crew the O-1 Crew and the PMV-11 crew,  kinda have to just decide. If i buy anything Veritas i get PMV-11 because i think it is good. But i'm not going to buy solely Veritas just for that blade it's not THAT good.

[Tmize]

10 hours ago, Pondhockey said:

Question on blade width:  I have several #4, #5 Stanley Bailey planes (according to the stamp on the plane bodies.)  The online chart that I found claims that they should be 2" width.  

As I measure them, none of the mouths are as wide as 2".  The irons themselves vary between 1.8" and 1.9" (i.e. greater than 1-3/4", less than 2".)  Is this what you expect?  Is 1-3/4" the usual size for a #4 or a #5?  Are actual sizes different from nominal?

 

 

I don’t know if I’ve measured the mouth opening but yes 2” for 4,5. 2 3/8” for 4 1/2,5 1/2,6,7 and 2 5/8 for #8. The #3 I think is 1 5/8” I think. 

[Tmize]

I believe what I’ve always used is A2 an have been perfectly happy with it. I honestly don’t mind sharpening IMO it’s still better than staring at a sander

[Pondhockey]

Thanks.  If you think of it when you're in the shop, would you please measure the actual width of a "2 inch" iron?

[derekcohen]

23 hours ago, Chestnut said:

I think you can put a pmv-11 blade in the LN planes and veritas has their own A-2 steel blades. So you really can go either way with both companies. If your comparing the A-2 of LN and the PMV-11 of Veritas they are goth going to sharpen to a very high quality edge. They are both high quality steels but the difference between them is a trade-off. I think the stock blade that came with my LN #4 has a slight edge over the PMV-11 for durability and longevity. It doesn't sharpen as fast though.

This is another one of those things that there are going to be 3 opinions the A-2 Crew the O-1 Crew and the PMV-11 crew,  kinda have to just decide. If i buy anything Veritas i get PMV-11 because i think it is good. But i'm not going to buy solely Veritas just for that blade it's not THAT good.

The actual point in making PM steel is that you can create a fine grain structure. In the case if the PM-V11 steel, the grain structure ends up being very similar to O1 steel, and this is the path to creating a very fine (sharp) edge.

Generally, A2 steel is made from larger grain, where the focus is on a longer-lasting edge. Being larger grain, the edge does not end up fine, and the large carbides can break off, leaving a chippy edge. In the case of LN, the A2 blades are cryogenically treated, which involved deep freezing. This breaks up the carbides and creates a finer grain structure - but I find that it does not come remotely close to PM-V11. It is also different when sharpening, having a "sticky" feel to it, and leaving a harder-to-remove wire edge,

You can fit Veritas blades to LN planes - I have done so - however you must retain the LN chipbreaker as the projection adjuster position is different.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Chestnut]

14 minutes ago, derekcohen said:

Generally, A2 steel is made from larger grain, where the focus is on a longer-lasting edge. Being larger grain, the edge does not end up fine, and the large carbides can break off, leaving a chippy edge. In the case of LN, the A2 blades are cryogenically treated, which involved deep freezing. This breaks up the carbides and creates a finer grain structure - but I very much does it comes remotely close to PM-V11. It is also different when sharpening, having a "sticky" feel to it, and leaving a harder-to-remove wire edge,

 

I forgot to mention the finenes of the cut thank you for covering it far better than i could have.

I'm assuming in the Quoted section you meant to say "but i very much don't think it comes close to PMV-11."?

The only question in my mind is how many years of experience will i need before i even notice the small differences? I've never noticed the sticky feel nor the harder to remove wire edge. I do notice that the Ln blade stays sharp a bit longer than the PMV-11. I don't really notice a ton of difference in cut quality not sure if that's the metal or a new modern plane vs an 80 year old one. They both slice end grain well despite higher angle planes not being ideal for end grain cutting.

[Tmize]

Are Veritas A2 cytogenetic tested or just normal air cooled? The two planes I have from them are small router plane and side rabbet both with A2 blades both with these two planes I don’t use all the time so hard to judge edge retention. 

[RichardA]

54 minutes ago, Pondhockey said:

Thanks.  If you think of it when you're in the shop, would you please measure the actual width of a "2 inch" iron?

Never ask a man to take a measurement of a 2" anything.  It's always way bigger.

[Tmize]

1 hour ago, Pondhockey said:

Thanks.  If you think of it when you're in the shop, would you please measure the actual width of a "2 inch" iron?

Here is my #3 at just under 1 3/4”

#4 is just under 2”

#4

#3

Just measured the original #4 lron an it dead on 2”

[Chip Sawdust]

Wow you guys are edjumucating me purty good on planes. I thought reading Hock's book on steel and sharpening was good; this is practical extra info. 

I like the A2 steel in the LN planes; it's the best I've used but I haven't near the experience you guys are talkng. So...keep it going! And thank you  

[Pondhockey]

Many thanks to Tmize, and apologies to everyone for the wasted bandwidth:

I went out to the shop and discovered that my digital caliper was not zeroed out and was off by 0.2 inches.

Sorry to cause Tmize the extra work, but I'm very grateful to get straightened out (also very embarrassed.)

[Pondhockey]

3 hours ago, Tmize said:

Are Veritas A2 cytogenetic tested or just normal air cooled? The two planes I have from them are small router plane and side rabbet both with A2 blades both with these two planes I don’t use all the time so hard to judge edge retention. 

cytogenetic = cryogenic?  Looks like an aggressive spell check substitution.

[Pondhockey]

On 12/11/2018 at 6:14 PM, Tmize said:

I’m very comfortable know now to where I can leave the sander in the drawer an give it a plane finish

I'm looking forward to that day!

[Ronn W]

I have a veritas BU smoother with a 35 deg blade and a 50 degree blade.  I love it...and I do use both blades.

[Tmize]

@derekcohen I was reading your review on your website about the bevel up smoother an compared to your other smoothers you have. An my take on it was at standard pitch  it was still a top contender. When it went to high angle it seem to be the top contender. I know it has been some years now has your option changed any on now you have had more time with it. As I’m starting to lean toward it more now as choice as my next plane

[derekcohen]

The BUS remains a superb smoother. Its a coffin shape, which makes it a dedicated smoothing plane, that is, it cannot be used for shooting. For this reason, only use high cutting angles. There is no point in anything else.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tmize]

Ok thanks

[Tmize]

Well I ordered the bu smoother with the PMV-11 blade comes standard 38* bevel iron. I’ll try that out it will put it my at York 50* pitch I’ll put a small micro bevel on so like 52ish and see how I like it. 

[Chestnut]

With you being primarily a BD guy I'll be interested to hear your take on the BU smoother.  Nice that you ordered during free shipping.

[Stumpnav]

I have always been a BD user. I tried the LN No.62 LAJP and did not like it. The little things I did not like: no lateral adjustment, lighter than a No 5, nothing to rest my index finger on when I had it pointed down the cut...but the biggest thing I did not like was the difficulty in changing the depth of cut.  I much prefer to be able to reach down with my finger and spin the adjustment wheel.

[Tpt life]

End grain keeps me around BU. Since I cannot give that up, I deal. 

[Tmize]

Yea I’m interested in how I like it to. I seen they was have free shipping an seen it as a sign. I differently give it a review once I try it out. If all else it has good resale value