Preservation vs restoration of hand planes

[Josh Vincze]

Hoping to restore the following to working condition

 Stanley no. 18 block plane "excelsior"

Winchester  no. 3005

Bs2 Stanley Handyman

Stanley C557B 

Fulton 15" wooden 

Wards masters #6

Wood  plane 26"  I believe to be truly old.  The iron is Baldwin Steel co. Cast Butchers 

  Are any of these worth more preserving then restoring.  I would like to have quality hand planes without spending a fortune on a veritas or lie Nielsen.  If I find that all parts can be honed then I plan on spending a good amount of time tuning, possibly all the way to a new paint job.

  Any recommendation on where to source new irons and chip breakers?

  If a wood plane has a check in it should I fill it with epoxy?  Lots of minor cracks inside back/frog of wood plane, fill and smooth to fully support iron?

  White vinegar bath or elbow grease for rust?

  The handle on the Winchester has a crack; make a new one, purchase one or just leave it?

[Tpt life]

Careful with vinegar. Too long and it can strip some casting alloys leaving an undesirable surface finish. 

[Josh Vincze]

How about market available rust remover like what wd makes?

[Tpt life]

I have used Evaporust and vinegar. All I am saying is you have to limit soak times with vinegar. It is not super friendly if you forget about it. 

[wtnhighlander]

I favor restoration to a good working condition, but not to 'like new' appearance. As for replacement blades and irons, check out Hock Tools.

[Chestnut]

16 hours ago, Josh Vincze said:

Any recommendation on where to source new irons and chip breakers?

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/blades/100620-stanley-record-cap-irons-with-veritas-bench-plane-blade

I highly recommend the Veritas PMV-11 blades and breakers. I've used Hock on both A2 and 0-1 and i personally feel the pmv-11 is a far better metal. Get a matched chip breaker and blade as they need to work together well and the stock chip breaker may not function well if the leading edge is damaged from rust pitting. Taking it back with lapping my make it too short to press against the blade properly. I normally pull the stock blade and breaker off and stick it in a drawer un touched for the future.

16 hours ago, Josh Vincze said:

If a wood plane has a check in it should I fill it with epoxy?  Lots of minor cracks inside back/frog of wood plane, fill and smooth to fully support iron?

  White vinegar bath or elbow grease for rust?

  The handle on the Winchester has a crack; make a new one, purchase one or just leave it?

This is my opinion:

I don't want a plane that is made to look like it just rolled off the factory floor today. I want a plane that looks like it's 100 years old but is clean. Which one is preservation which one is restoration? I don't know.

I don't like the rust removal baths much because they do little to remove some of the surface staining that may have occurred for what ever reason. Also they do little to address minor pitting from rust. I use elbow grease. This also allows me to "flatten" out the sole of the plane some provided it may have moved since manufacture. After i use some elbow grease i use a green scotch brite pad to even out the sheen on the bottom and sides and then eventually polish it up a bit.

16 hours ago, Josh Vincze said:

I would like to have quality hand planes without spending a fortune on a veritas or lie Nielsen.

The old stanley planes from the early 1900s are good. Really good. Never use a current veritas or Lie-nielsen plane because the old planes don't compare. After a new breaker and iron and a lot of time and elbow grease the price difference isn't all that much for a lot of the planes, unless your time isn't very valuable.

[Josh Vincze]

Thank you Chestnut. 

If I understand "Never use a current veritas or Lie-nielsen plane because the old planes don't compare" correctly, then I guess this exercise is just to gain a better appreciation for when I likely go lie-Nielsen. 

  My time is valuable with a 5 month old and three year old but for the few minutes I have free I find working on the planes to be rewarding.  I also hope that this exercise will help me make the right choices on what types of planes are important to me. I do see spending a grand + on hand planes as an expense and want to make sure to get it right.

 

[RichardA]

Old planes ned to do what they do. They don't need to be pretty, they  just need to function the way you need them to. I think my newest pland is about 50 years old and the oldest  is close to 150 years old.

[Coop]

I’m far better at using Southwest than any other

[Chip Sawdust]

Richard has the best picture of a bunch of planes I've seen around here

I second the recommendation of Hock blades and chip breakers. They're heavier than most stock blades, especially on older planes, and the material is excellent.

I'm in the camp of not restoring, but making usable and using them. I'm not a collector and none of my stuff will ever make it into a museum, unless I'm elected President or something. So - no. Here's a 100+ year old Sargent that works really well for me with a Hock setup, which actually cost me more than the plane itself.

[RichardA]

On 6/19/2020 at 5:07 PM, RichardA said:

Old planes ned to do what they do. They don't need to be pretty, they  just need to function the way you need them to. I think my newest pland is about 50 years old and the oldest  is close to 150 years old.

I made an error in saying my oldest plane is about 150 years old.  The wooden coffin plane on the upper right was made in a prison in Scoico, Ohio in 1848, It's in near mint condition, and cuts exactly like it's suppose to, once you learn how to set the blade.  Not to shabby for a 172 year old chunk of Birch.

[Coop]

Given the age and location made, did you look to see if your signature was on it somewhere? 

[RichardA]

8 minutes ago, Coop said:

Given the age and location made, did you look to see if your signature was on it somewhere? 

I musta missed that one.  I was probably on the chain gang that day.

[G S Haydon]

None of them are worth preserving. As long as you are having fun, just put in as much effort as you see fit.

With a view to make them usable, just get them clean so rust and dirt does not transfer to your work. You may also find the standard irons are just fine, especially if you plan to use normal timber.

If you add up your time spent restoring them, along with the sundries required it may be more logical to buy new. However I find bringing life back to an old tool an enjoyable distraction. This recent saw cost me £1 and took one hour to sort out.

[Chip Sawdust]

Yep, I'm with G S - get them to the point where they can cut wood and rock on. Unless you're starting a museum, they were made to work wood.

[RichardA]

Clean them up, learn how to set them up, and put them to work.  Like this.

[Josh Vincze]

Just wanted to say thank you for everyone's reply and inspiration. 

  After spending about 16hrs on the metal body planes removing rust, flattening the soles, adjusting the frogs and honing irons along with their corresponding chip breakers I've found the Winchester and wards master #6 worthy of fine tuning.   The other metal body planes I'll likely set up as scrub planes.  I was surprised that all of them with even this small amount of tuning would produce consistent .002" shavings on southern yellow pine.  The Wards and Winchester just seem to respond better to adjustments in depth of cut along with the way the frog beds in them.

  I've only played around with the wooden body planes for a short period of time.  I do find I like the a lot.  Even with my minimal amount of experience and not honing the iron at all I could get the larger plane to work on aromatic cedar.  My optimism might be because I've only been using aromatic cedar and pine but I'll hesitate to pull out the rift and quartered white oak for a day I'm feeling especially cocky