Nakashima Conoid Table.


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23 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Yep gonna follow this one. I scanned the post but will come back to read it in full later. I've also always loved the look of this table. Are you goign to make the matching chairs?

I am not. While I find the chairs attractive I also think they are a bit too...loud.

I don't know what to do about chairs yet. I'm thinking benches. Maybe the benches will use some similar angles. I don't know. That is a worry for Future Me.

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50 minutes ago, Coyote Jim said:

I also think they are a bit too...loud.

BLASPHEMY! :D Yeah they are a bit loud but in all the right ways for me personally. I will make 1 or 2 of them some day. I LOVE how they appear to defy gravity.

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Been a long time since I have seen someone cut a 12/4 white oak board lengthwise no less, scratch that i've never seen it! That must have been some workout. Having said that if your saw is as sharp as the chisels you were using probably not that bad lol. That was some beautiful pairing with the chisel.

The table is gonna look spectacular!

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I'm digging this, nice work.

I'm not a huge fan of his Conoid chair either. But I want to definitely make some because of my addiction to chairs. It's also a chair that I think non woodworkers marvel at.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Is the bridle tight enough on the inside, that it doesn't rattle? If so, the glued joint should be strong enough. IMO that gap is purely cosmetic. You might find a plane shaving or two that you can glue to the faces of the bridle of the upright, and fill the gap. Be careful, though. Any grain mismatch runs the risk of becoming more obvious than a glue-filled gap.

Personally, I would glue it up with the leg clamped toward the center of the stretcher, then mask around the gap and fill it with sawdust-thickened epoxy. As the leg angles out over that side of the joint, it will be in perpetual shadow, and no one else will ever know it is there.

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Shannon rodges just talked about using plane shavings to "close" loose joinery like what you illustrated. He applied glue then the plane shaving and then more glue and assembled the joint.

https://woodtalkshow.com/episodes/wt478-joinery-mistakes/

I think this entire episode will help you a lot.

For the gap I'd use a sliver of wood or something to fill most of it. It's not going to be perfect because of the grain direction in the wood though.

Loving the build so far. Your journal convinced me that I shouldn't compromise on the kitchen table I'm making soon. I wanted to do the conoid table but Megan didn't like it. I recently told her i really wanted to make this table for our kitchen and wasn't going to take no for an answer and she said "ok" like she never said no in the first place. I was confused.

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20 hours ago, Askland09 said:

Would it be viable to glue two thin pieces to each side of the morticed leg and sand them back to get a better fit on the joint?  

I think this would work. Maybe get some veneer and glue to the side of the base piece (fiddling with the inside of the mortice is tricky). Then I could router plane down to a tight fit. If I use hide glue I would not have to worry about the glue not sticking to already glued piece.
 

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17 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

Is the bridle tight enough on the inside, that it doesn't rattle? If so, the glued joint should be strong enough. IMO that gap is purely cosmetic.

The bridle rattles a tiny bit. Which is why I thought maybe I could squeeze the "forks" of the leg together enough to make contact. This joint is the fulcrum a lot of force so I think it needs to be as strong as I can possibly make it.

I agree that the gap is cosmetic, and it's in a pretty hidden place. I may end up just ignoring it.

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17 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Shannon rodges just talked about using plane shavings to "close" loose joinery like what you illustrated. He applied glue then the plane shaving and then more glue and assembled the joint.

https://woodtalkshow.com/episodes/wt478-joinery-mistakes/

I think this entire episode will help you a lot.

For the gap I'd use a sliver of wood or something to fill most of it. It's not going to be perfect because of the grain direction in the wood though.

Loving the build so far. Your journal convinced me that I shouldn't compromise on the kitchen table I'm making soon. I wanted to do the conoid table but Megan didn't like it. I recently told her i really wanted to make this table for our kitchen and wasn't going to take no for an answer and she said "ok" like she never said no in the first place. I was confused.

I'll give that podcast a listen. Thank you for the recommendation.

A sliver of wood in the gap would be a pretty easy fix and most likely what I will end up doing. It's in a pretty hidden area so any mismatch grain will be hardly ever noticed.

If you are going to build this table some day then bookmark the link below. Before I started I did a lot of googling for pictures of the table and found some very helpful photos and compiled them all together.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6zSthR2ReykTveuBA

Question for everyone:

Would using epoxy for glue on the loose joint fix my problem? Or is the epoxy just going to fail over time because it is bridging the gap?

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6 hours ago, Coyote Jim said:

Question for everyone:

Would using epoxy for glue on the loose joint fix my problem? Or is the epoxy just going to fail over time because it is bridging the gap?

It will probably outlast all of us. 

And regarding looseness of the bridle 'forks', that is the perfect application for plane shaving shims. Glue them to the part that the bridle fits over, they'll never be seen.

Alternatively, have you considered draw-boring that joint?

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2 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

It will probably outlast all of us. 

And regarding looseness of the bridle 'forks', that is the perfect application for plane shaving shims. Glue them to the part that the bridle fits over, they'll never be seen.

Alternatively, have you considered draw-boring that joint?

That's good info. Thanks WT.

I have considered draw-boring that joint. Still on the fence about it.

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Some might feel that draw-boring is too much of a departure from the Nakashima design. I agree that stylistically, the pegs seem more in line with something out of the American frontier, rather than the flowing Asian feel of Nakashima, but if properly select for color and grain that compliments the rest of the piece, I think they could work well. The Conoid table has enough flats and straight angles that the pegs would not appear out of place, IMO. If it were more sculpted, like Krenov or Maloof styles, a large peg might be distracting.

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8 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

Maloof styles

Maloof used plugged screws. My thought with the draw bore peg is cut the peg short and then make a face grain plug to hide the draw bore.

18 hours ago, Coyote Jim said:

Would using epoxy for glue on the loose joint fix my problem? Or is the epoxy just going to fail over time because it is bridging the gap?

I was goign to suggest epoxy as well but the plane shaving will work just as well if not better and might be easier to do. Though if you want belt and suspenders do both.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Does anyone have any good suggestion on how to remove the waste of this bridle using hand tools?

IMG_20200906_094500.thumb.jpg.87723c5482cbe749b69798ed2b2a8e8f.jpg

IMG_20200906_094503.thumb.jpg.04f52677a3277a2bc6b89ac797b68274.jpg

It's just over 3/4" wide and just under 6" long. I have 2 of these to do.

I was thinking I could use a brace and bit in through the side and bore a hole all the way across.

Or possibly make lots of relief cuts and chisel my brains out. This being white oak end grain makes me doubt how efficient that would be.

Any other suggestions?

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19 minutes ago, RichardA said:

You could rout some of it out, but you'd still wind up with a hand saw and chisel.  However If on the second one, you use a router before cutting the angle, it would save you a lot of *#!&%^$ words.

So step one would be: go buy a router.

I have possibly been over thinking it (which is my MO). It's really just a mortise with an open side. I could just chop down the side like a standard mortise but I would have the added benefit of being able to split out the waste as I progress down.

Think that would work?

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