Chisel sharpening uh-oh

[Woodworking_Hobby]

Ok so I tried my hand at sharpening a chisel and the first time did not go well.  
 

1. I thought I was starting with a some what quality chisel but maybe not. 

2. I am using a corse, fine, extra-fine stone set. 

3. I first tried to flatten the back.  When I have watched folks in this step they seem to say you want a polished look at the edge by the blade. Well I could see I was removing material but it was slow going and it would take maybe an hour to get it to look polished??? Should I keep going or good enough?

4.  So I do not know if it was from over lapping the back or maybe I was rocking the blade but now the front bevel is at an angle from right to left and not flat.  Do I need to re-grind the front bevel on my bench grinder and start over?  Or if I out in my honing guide and start sharpening with it straighten our?

5. And ideas on where I went wrong?  I knew sharpening can be hard but this was not how I thought the first go out go..;-) 
 

 

[h3nry]

I don't consider myself an expert, but I do sharpen my chisels freehand, so I'll try to answer your questions ...

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1. I thought I was starting with a some what quality chisel but maybe not.

Unless you are starting out with a babana shaped chisel, the quality won't make much difference ... harder steels will hold an edge longer, but softer steels will be easier to generate an edge.

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2. I am using a corse, fine, extra-fine stone set. 

I have no idea how that compares to the grits on my stones ... I use Arkansas oil stones ... but I expect your diamond stones cut quite efficiently.

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3. I first tried to flatten the back.  When I have watched folks in this step they seem to say you want a polished look at the edge by the blade. Well I could see I was removing material but it was slow going and it would take maybe an hour to get it to look polished??? Should I keep going or good enough?

You do want a polished look ... a mirror polish. But it only needs to be so right at the cutting tip. What you also want is a flat back. The back should be pretty close to flat with a new chisel, so it shouldn't take long to get it flat. In fact you only really need the cutting tip, and the side edges to be flat, it doesn't really matter if there is a tiny hollow in the centre where the factory grind isn't removed.

You will know when you have got it flat when you can see the scratches from the stone going right to the edges (again don't fuss about the scratches going right to the middle). Once you have the scratches going right to the edge, you are done with that stone ... move on to the next, and again you are looking to remove the scratches from the coarse stone, and replace them with "scratches" (in quotes because hopefully they will be very fine and not really look like scratches) from the medium stone ... again once the marks from the coarse stone are removed, you are done with that stone ... move onto the fine stone, and repeat untill all the "scratches" from the medium stone are replaced by the ""scratches"" (extra quotes because the fine stone should give a pretty polished look) from the fine stone ... then you are done with the stones on the back.

Note ... if the chisel starts out reasonable, you may not need the coarse stone on the back at all.

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4.  So I do not know if it was from over lapping the back or maybe I was rocking the blade but now the front bevel is at an angle from right to left and not flat.  Do I need to re-grind the front bevel on my bench grinder and start over?  Or if I out in my honing guide and start sharpening with it straighten our?

If it was from over lapping the back, then you really over did it ... check by putting a straight-edge on the back of your chisel ... it should be flat. I suspect that you got this skew by over doing it on the bevel, if you weren't holding the chisel straight and over did the grinding on the bevel this will happen ... probably easiest to straighten it up on the grinder, but you got it into that state on the stone, it should be possible to correct it on the stone too.

Hone the bevel in a similar way you did the back ... use the coarse stone first until the scratches go all the across the bevel to the cutting edge. Then pause. Then continue a bit more until you can feel a burr on the backface of the chisel. Once you can feel the burr all the way across the cutting edge ... stop, you are done with that stone ... then go back to the fine stone and flatten that burr off the back edge until it is smooth again (you may now be able to feel the burr on the bevel face again now, but I usually don't worry about that).

Then hone the bevel with the medium stone in the same way. First until you have the "scratches" all the way across the bevel. And then more until you can feel a burr with your finger on the back. Then remove the burr from the back. Sometimes this is clearly just the burr from the coarse stone being rolled over, if so repeat this step to make sure it is this stone producing the burr.

Finally repeat again using the fine stone, the burr may be quite hard to feel because it will hopefully be very small. If in any doubt do it twice. At the end make sure that the burr is removed, always end with a few strokes lapping on the back to finally remove the burr.

If you have a strop now is the time to use it.

When repeat sharpening the chisel next time, you shouldn't have to use the coarse stone at all, and probably start with the fine stone on the back, and the medium and fine stone on the bevel (if you're more efficient at sharpening than me and keep your tools well honed, you really ought to be able to skip the medium stone altogether). The coarse stone will probably only come out if you have dinged the cutting edge, or been very remiss at waiting too long before resharpening.

** I am assuming your stones have similar grits to mine.

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5. And ideas on where I went wrong?  I knew sharpening can be hard but this was not how I thought the first go out go..;-) 

You may have been a bit enthusiastic lapping the back of the chisel, but I think the real problem was that you weren't holding the chisel straight while honing the bevel ... some people like to use honing guides to help with this. You probably should have caught this before you got that skew by noticing the asymmetric pattern of scratches growing on the bevel, and unless your chisel was incfredibly blunt to start with you must have kept grinding away much longer than needed.

Keeping the back flat on the stones while honing the back is easy beacuse the back is so large, but it can be quite tricky keeping the bevel flat on the stone while honing the bevel ... making sure you have a good stance at the sharpening station helps a lot with this. If you fail to keep the bevel flat to the stone you will slowly create a convex shape to the bevel, this isn't a disaster by itself, but it can mean that you spend a lot of frustrating time on the fine stone honing the back of the bevel (away from the tip) and not properly honing the bevel at the cutting tip, and it taking forever before you get the burr ... although it can be very hard to feel off the fine stone, make sure you get that burr, then remove it ... I think that is the key.

I'm sure there are others here more experienced than me who can improve my technique, but I hope this long rambling post makes sense and gives you a few pointers.

[Woodworking_Hobby]

Thanks for all of the info!  I am taking a break and will try again in a bit and start fresh. One thing I did notice when I was trying to lap the back was the scratches were at an angle. Like if I put some marker on the back, more was coming off one side over the other. Could this be from putting an incorrect pressure or not holding it flat when doing the back?

[wtnhighlander]

Bear in mind that coarse diamond plates will remove material fast. This is where the shape of the bevel can get away from you. I strongly suggest a honing guide to correct that bevel, but with patients and close observation, you can it it freehand.

[roughsawn]

h3nry, you did a great job of explaining the technique.

Lay the back of the chisel FLAT on the stone, and lap until you have even scratches all the way to the cutting edge. Remember...you can always use a Sharpie to check your work. No harm in that. When I switch grits, I lap in the opposite direction. That way you can really see the old scratches disappear.

Now switch to the bevel. I'm pretty good at sharpening stuff freehand, it's a passion of mine. That said...I still use a Veritas sharpening guide. I swallow my pride, and get a perfect job every time. Works great on hand plane blades as well.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/guides/101899-veritas-mk-ii-standard-honing-guide?item=05M0901&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8_qRBhCXARIsAE2AtRajYqfjRh6NfDA7DZMr8NFkp92bKPBJMEewuWlvY66zzyTWqtBCqscaAscyEALw_wcB

There are several you tube videos showing the veritas in action, and how to use it. Good Luck!

[Woodworking_Hobby]

Yes I think I got excited to use the stones and got away from myself. When I put a straight edge on the back there was a chuck missing from the back ;-). Hit the back with the good old bench grinder and then went easy on the stones and got it looking great on the back right by the cutting edge. Next time to fix that bevel. I was using a honing guide but think I was going fast as I was playing with it and it was easy to rock it a touch and think that’s how I got the bevel messed up. This time slow and easy to get it sharp. Plus I think I was being a little hard on my self. It did not look pretty but seemed to cut ok. 

[Tom King]

I would save the diamond plate, and regrind the bevel to get it back to square.  Those diamond plates don't last as long as you might think they would.  The grinder will be much faster anyway.

[Woodworking_Hobby]

1 hour ago, Tom King said:

I would save the diamond plate, and regrind the bevel to get it back to square.  Those diamond plates don't last as long as you might think they would.  The grinder will be much faster anyway.

Ok I will give that a shot!  I went with the diamond stone as I thought that would be easier than messing with the wet stones and trying to keep those flat. Do you know how long the diamond stones last or do you just have to watch them until they are not working as well. To be honest this is why I have avoid using chisels and hand planes up to this point but figured you have to start at some point and why not now. This is also why I started with “cheaper” chisels so if it all goes in the tubes it is not the end of the world. 

[wtnhighlander]

You might notice a difference after the first few uses. It seems like the diamond plates have a bit of 'break-in' period, at least mine did. But they should last quite  some  time.

[Woodworking_Hobby]

18 hours ago, h3nry said:

I don't consider myself an expert, but I do sharpen my chisels freehand, so I'll try to answer your questions ...

Unless you are starting out with a babana shaped chisel, the quality won't make much difference ... harder steels will hold an edge longer, but softer steels will be easier to generate an edge.

I have no idea how that compares to the grits on my stones ... I use Arkansas oil stones ... but I expect your diamond stones cut quite efficiently.

You do want a polished look ... a mirror polish. But it only needs to be so right at the cutting tip. What you also want is a flat back. The back should be pretty close to flat with a new chisel, so it shouldn't take long to get it flat. In fact you only really need the cutting tip, and the side edges to be flat, it doesn't really matter if there is a tiny hollow in the centre where the factory grind isn't removed.

You will know when you have got it flat when you can see the scratches from the stone going right to the edges (again don't fuss about the scratches going right to the middle). Once you have the scratches going right to the edge, you are done with that stone ... move on to the next, and again you are looking to remove the scratches from the coarse stone, and replace them with "scratches" (in quotes because hopefully they will be very fine and not really look like scratches) from the medium stone ... again once the marks from the coarse stone are removed, you are done with that stone ... move onto the fine stone, and repeat untill all the "scratches" from the medium stone are replaced by the ""scratches"" (extra quotes because the fine stone should give a pretty polished look) from the fine stone ... then you are done with the stones on the back.

Note ... if the chisel starts out reasonable, you may not need the coarse stone on the back at all.

If it was from over lapping the back, then you really over did it ... check by putting a straight-edge on the back of your chisel ... it should be flat. I suspect that you got this skew by over doing it on the bevel, if you weren't holding the chisel straight and over did the grinding on the bevel this will happen ... probably easiest to straighten it up on the grinder, but you got it into that state on the stone, it should be possible to correct it on the stone too.

Hone the bevel in a similar way you did the back ... use the coarse stone first until the scratches go all the across the bevel to the cutting edge. Then pause. Then continue a bit more until you can feel a burr on the backface of the chisel. Once you can feel the burr all the way across the cutting edge ... stop, you are done with that stone ... then go back to the fine stone and flatten that burr off the back edge until it is smooth again (you may now be able to feel the burr on the bevel face again now, but I usually don't worry about that).

Then hone the bevel with the medium stone in the same way. First until you have the "scratches" all the way across the bevel. And then more until you can feel a burr with your finger on the back. Then remove the burr from the back. Sometimes this is clearly just the burr from the coarse stone being rolled over, if so repeat this step to make sure it is this stone producing the burr.

Finally repeat again using the fine stone, the burr may be quite hard to feel because it will hopefully be very small. If in any doubt do it twice. At the end make sure that the burr is removed, always end with a few strokes lapping on the back to finally remove the burr.

If you have a strop now is the time to use it.

When repeat sharpening the chisel next time, you shouldn't have to use the coarse stone at all, and probably start with the fine stone on the back, and the medium and fine stone on the bevel (if you're more efficient at sharpening than me and keep your tools well honed, you really ought to be able to skip the medium stone altogether). The coarse stone will probably only come out if you have dinged the cutting edge, or been very remiss at waiting too long before resharpening.

** I am assuming your stones have similar grits to mine.

You may have been a bit enthusiastic lapping the back of the chisel, but I think the real problem was that you weren't holding the chisel straight while honing the bevel ... some people like to use honing guides to help with this. You probably should have caught this before you got that skew by noticing the asymmetric pattern of scratches growing on the bevel, and unless your chisel was incfredibly blunt to start with you must have kept grinding away much longer than needed.

Keeping the back flat on the stones while honing the back is easy beacuse the back is so large, but it can be quite tricky keeping the bevel flat on the stone while honing the bevel ... making sure you have a good stance at the sharpening station helps a lot with this. If you fail to keep the bevel flat to the stone you will slowly create a convex shape to the bevel, this isn't a disaster by itself, but it can mean that you spend a lot of frustrating time on the fine stone honing the back of the bevel (away from the tip) and not properly honing the bevel at the cutting tip, and it taking forever before you get the burr ... although it can be very hard to feel off the fine stone, make sure you get that burr, then remove it ... I think that is the key.

I'm sure there are others here more experienced than me who can improve my technique, but I hope this long rambling post makes sense and gives you a few pointers.

This is great and provides some good pointers and tips that I will try! 

[Woodworking_Hobby]

This morning when I was cleaning up I found my set of Stanley chisels from the home store that I use for beating in stuff more than projects. I am going to try and hone my skills with these and will let you know how it goes!!

[Ronn W]

Once  you get the chisels straight and sharp and have used them there will come a time for honing them to restore the cutiing edge.  You should not need to do any additional flattening work on the back of the chisel except to remove small burs.  For honing you can use only the finest stone.  I would not try to hone the entire surface of the bevel.  Set the bevel on the finest stone so the entire bevel is on contact with the stone and then lift the handle ever so slightly and pull the chisel towerds you.  Just 2 or 3 passes and you should see that you have created a secondary (micro) bevel just at the tip of the blade and you should feel a very fine burr on the back of the cutting edge.  Remove the bur lightly on the back and then hone the blade with honing compound on leather - or just use bare leather.  Super sharp.  From now on you need only refresh the micro bevel when honing is required.  The small micro bevel hones very quickly just a few strokes and saves time and effort.  Someday when the micro bevel becomes much larger you can re-sharpen the whole bevel and start a new micro bevel but that could be years from now.  BTW - I use a honing guide but you don't have to.

[Chestnut]

If this is your first time go buy a cheap hardware store Irwin Marples chisel and practice on that. This does 2 things, it allows you to goof up with minimal consequences. It also removes some of the pressure which can help.

[Isaac]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:44 AM, Chestnut said:

If this is your first time go buy a cheap hardware store Irwin Marples chisel and practice on that. This does 2 things, it allows you to goof up with minimal consequences. It also removes some of the pressure which can help.

Plus cheep chisels have softer steels = faster results. 

[gee-dub]

On 3/27/2022 at 9:07 AM, Woodworking_Hobby said:

This morning when I was cleaning up I found my set of Stanley chisels from the home store that I use for beating in stuff more than projects. I am going to try and hone my skills with these and will let you know how it goes!!

Good deal.  I was going to recommend a cheap set from Harbor Freight to practice with.  I agree that getting back to square and rough bevel with the grinder will speed you along. Sharpening by hand is great but like hand cut dovetails, requires practice and some muscle memory to ease the process.  Well worth the effort.

I started with guides and still use them for long sharpening sessions where fatigue is apt to let me wander.  Something like an Eclipse clone or a Kell is quick, simple to use and does not rob you of the tactile experience of tool to stone.  You don't have to go whole hog into a sharpening system.

Learn from my mistakes.  I have several guides and the paraphernalia of different methods most of which gather dust.  I do not feel that using a simple bevel guide will prevent you from learning to sharpen free hand.  Now I can confidently free hand, touch-up or strop.  In the end a simple guide is what helped me the most and is what I generally reach for if I need a little help.  This is especially true if my arthritis is acting up or if I am at the end of a long day and don't trust my muscle memory.  The joys of getting older