Wide Face Grain Glue Ups

[TomInNC]

I need to make a counter top that is roughly 28"x72" and 1.5" thick. Unfortunately, it looks like the local lumber yard only has 4/4 material. I know I could get to the required thickness by making a butcher block, but that's not really the look I was going for. Would it make any sense to glue up 2 1" panels that are 28" wide and then glue those panels together? I've never glued up anything this wide before. Given the enormous amount of glue involved for something like this, I'm expecting the panels to be sliding all over the place for the final glue up. Would it make sense to use screws from the underside as "clamps" to keep the panels registered correctly? Or is this just a terrible idea?

[gee-dub]

I would use a doubled outer edge all around and a plywood support base to present the look of  full thickness top.  Similar to how solid surface kitchen and bath counters are built.

[wtnhighlander]

I see no structural reason that you shouldn't laminate board to get the desired thickness. By off-setting the seams in the upper and lower layers, and arranging the grain so the most likely direction of cup in each board is cancelled by its opposite, the panel should be quite stable. My concern would be the appeance of glue lines around the edges. 

[BillyJack]

I'd do it in sections,  but up to you.

 

 

 

[BillyJack]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:11 AM, gee-dub said:

I would use a doubled outer edge all around and a plywood support base to present the look of  full thickness top.  Similar to how solid surface kitchen and bath counters are built.

It doesn’t work on the ends. I worked in Solid surface at Fabricor  in KC for awhile. you can do seamless wraps on SS, but not on wood ends..

[Mark J]

Is there another lumber yard "within reach" that has what you want?  Will your local yard do special orders?

[BillyJack]

 

Would it make sense to use screws from the underside as"clamps" to keep the panels registered correctly? Or is this just a terrible idea?

 

You need to make cauls the size you need..

 

[TomInNC]

Will definitely be making cauls. I was just concerned with keeping the panels from sliding all over the place during the glue up. That's a ton of slippery surface area.

I just moved and am trying to learn more about local suppliers, but at this point my understanding is that there's basically one show in town (which is still an hour away) for kiln-dried hardwoods, and they don't do custom orders. I'm 2.5 hours or so from some great lumber dealers in NC, but it will likely be a while before I can get 5 hours to do the drive. 

[Tpt life]

This is a place for trim nails with oversized work. Cauls work in a single plane. If the nails can be included, there is a trick of firing trim nails to stick out, clipping them on a sharp angle, and pressing work pieces together. I typically only prefer these methods in waste areas. You could use screws, but they take longer. My M12 23 gauge works a treat.
 

 I will add, biscuits and other alignment methods work just fine for these type of situations also. Just don’t leave one where it will be seen ever. 

[BillyJack]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:32 AM, TomInNC said:

Will definitely be making cauls. I was just concerned with keeping the panels from sliding all over the place during the glue up. That's a ton of slippery surface area.

I just moved and am trying to learn more about local suppliers, but at this point my understanding is that there's basically one show in town (which is still an hour away) for kiln-dried hardwoods, and they don't do custom orders. I'm 2.5 hours or so from some great lumber dealers in NC, but it will likely be a while before I can get 5 hours to do the drive. 

Cauls will keep it flat. Your cauls are separate from you pipe clamps, etc. you need to ge5 it almost pulled together , use the cauls to ge5 it as flat as possible and the finish clamping the width 100%. 
 

They’re are tricks for gluing up multiple tops to make one. You may be better to off doing the whole top at once..

[BillyJack]

What kind of wood you wanting to make this from

[BillyJack]

I believe this was the look you didn't want?

 

[gee-dub]

On 8/13/2023 at 6:22 AM, BillyJack said:

It doesn’t work on the ends. I worked in Solid surface at Fabricor  in KC for awhile. you can do seamless wraps on SS, but not on wood ends..

Doh!  That'll teach me to respond before the coffee kicks in.  Thanks BillyJack.

[BillyJack]

It’s all good

[TomInNC]

A ton of responses this morning!

The floors in the room are hickory, so I was going to make a hickory top for the counter for the mini bar fridge I asked about in another thread. My thinking was that the grain pattern from the face grain would look better with the floors than the butcher block. The lumber yard also partially dimensioned the boards already (I think they're 13/16), so I would be laminating a ton of pretty thin material to build up to the full width of the top. 

[BillyJack]

Hickory is a totally  different animal..

[wtnhighlander]

It is possible to use an under-layer of ply, like @gee-dub suggested, and use "waterfall" miters on the edges and ends, but it takes some fancy cutting. Glue up the show layer, extra wide and long. Miter cut the long grain edges first, folding them to get the appearance of thickness. After that dries, repeat across the ends that will be visible, forming an upside-down tray. Then fill the tray with ply or secondary wood to reach the thickness all the way across.

[Coop]

On 8/13/2023 at 1:09 PM, BillyJack said:

Hickory is a totally  different animal..

How so, other than it being super hard. Kissing cousins to pecan but beautiful wood! 

[BillyJack]

I worked for Jakobe furniture from 2002-2019..The company was the largest supplier of restaurant tops in the country and shipped worldwide. After many hickory contracts and failures, the company took hickory out of its line up. 
 

Problems…

unseen fine line crack that you couldn’t see 

joints failing over time. 

. 

[BillyJack]

So ask yourself….

How many jobs/ projects have you done with Hickory.

[TomInNC]

This would be my first time working with hickory. Any suggestions for a species that looks similar to hickory but is more forgiving.

[BillyJack]

My work bench top.is hickory.

 

[soonerdg]

I know there have been a number of replies and I didn't read them all so you may already have your answer.  I would glue your 4/4 boards to some kind of substrate (plywood) and then use a face board to get the thickness you're looking for.  However, if you're dead set on solid wood there's no good reason no to glue the thinner boards face to face.  If I were going to do that, I would face glue the narrow boards and then edge glue the thicker narrow boards to make the countertop.  That just seems easier to me.

[BillyJack]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:04 AM, soonerdg said:

I know there have been a number of replies and I didn't read them all so you may already have your answer.  I would glue your 4/4 boards to some kind of substrate (plywood) and then use a face board to get the thickness you're looking for.  However, if you're dead set on solid wood there's no good reason no to glue the thinner boards face to face.  If I were going to do that, I would face glue the narrow boards and then edge glue the thicker narrow boards to make the countertop.  That just seems easier to me.

Wouldn’t glueing boards to a substrate limit free movement?

[Wimayo]

Sorry if I missed the answer somewhere above, but why does it have to be 1.5" thick all the way across? As wtnhighlander said, just do a "waterfall" edge on exposed edges. Not that difficult. If you need a little extra height just because of the height of the cabinet below, add some battens at the under side mounting points.

This white oak desk top was made with 4/4 and "waterfall" edges: