Best bang for the volt!

[WarrenX]

Would you rather... With only one 220v circuit available (30 amp), have a 220v dust collector and all 110v tools, or choose one 220v tool with a 110v dust collector? What tool would you choose?Personally, I'm trying to choose between an Onidea Supercell or a Sawstop 3hp PCS.  Both have good 110v versions, but which deserves that sweet sweet 220v goodness more?  I also plan to get a CNC which might really benefit from that Supercell.

[wtnhighlander]

Based on conditions in my workshop and work habits, the dust collector would be my choice.

[Chestnut]

The 240V tool wouldn't be a table saw IMO. I've never had an issue with my 1.75 hp table saw and don't see the need for a 3hp one ever. The hard question is between the DC and the planer. I upgraded from the DW735 to a 15" 3hp HH planer and I'll never go back.

If you plan CNC ever. The dust collector should get the 240V circuit.

Is there no way to upgrade the box to get a 2nd double pole 240 circuit? I ran a house with a 100A main and a full wood shop. Well it's the same house I'm in now we just upgraded to a 200a main because we ran out of spaces and if i was going to upgrade panels i might as well step from 100a to 200a espically because my service was big enough.

[pkinneb]

 

First off welcome to the forum!

I agree with the others if I had to choose would go dust collector. Having said that I would put in my plans to upgrade the service. Depending on your electrical codes adding a penal is not a big deal at all in fact I have done it multiple times. We started with 200 amp to the house now it is 400 amp with a 200 amp panel in the shop and a 100 amp panel in the pool house. FWIW it was all done according to code and signed off by the electrical inspector  

[Mark J]

If you were able to add just one more 240V circuit you could share that outlet with more than one 240V tool, so long as only one were plugged in at a time.

Have you looked at adding a circuit? 

[legenddc]

On 1/9/2025 at 8:27 AM, Chestnut said:

The 240V tool wouldn't be a table saw IMO. I've never had an issue with my 1.75 hp table saw and don't see the need for a 3hp one ever. The hard question is between the DC and the planer. I upgraded from the DW735 to a 15" 3hp HH planer and I'll never go back.

If you plan CNC ever. The dust collector should get the 240V circuit.

Is there no way to upgrade the box to get a 2nd double pole 240 circuit? I ran a house with a 100A main and a full wood shop. Well it's the same house I'm in now we just upgraded to a 200a main because we ran out of spaces and if i was going to upgrade panels i might as well step from 100a to 200a espically because my service was big enough.

Good to know. Every time I price out a Sawstop I look at the 3HP version, not because I'm sure I need it but if you're spending that much what's a little more.

[drzaius]

I wouldn't go less than 3 HP for dust collection and that's in 240V territory.

[Tom King]

I have said a number of times that less than 3hp is wishful thinking.

[WarrenX]

Hi everyone! Thanks for all the great responses! I look forward to responding individually when I get some time after work.  For now I'll just say that the DC seems to be the consensus, and it makes a lot of sense.  Also a second 220v circuit is possible eventually, but my current service is maxed out, and my service line is buried. It's really nice not having power poles in the neighborhood, but it makes upgrading service painful.

[Beechwood Chip]

This may be over-engineering and over the top, but apparently there's a way to add more circuits when your service is at it's max Amperage.  It's a device that goes in your main panel and shuts off circuits as necessary to keep your total amps under the limit.  For example, turning off your electric hot water heater when you turn on your table saw, since turning off your hot water heater for a few minutes won't really bother anyone.

Here's a video, start at 15:40.

 

[WarrenX]

On 1/9/2025 at 6:27 AM, Chestnut said:

The 240V tool wouldn't be a table saw IMO. I've never had an issue with my 1.75 hp table saw and don't see the need for a 3hp one ever. The hard question is between the DC and the planer. I upgraded from the DW735 to a 15" 3hp HH planer and I'll never go back.

If you plan CNC ever. The dust collector should get the 240V circuit.

Is there no way to upgrade the box to get a 2nd double pole 240 circuit? I ran a house with a 100A main and a full wood shop. Well it's the same house I'm in now we just upgraded to a 200a main because we ran out of spaces and if i was going to upgrade panels i might as well step from 100a to 200a espically because my service was big enough.

Hi Chestnut! Thanks for your help! We're thinking along the same lines. I've had my heart set on that 3hp Sawstop for a long time, but recently I've began to think that it won't expand my current options as much as a CNC will.  I'm seriously considering picking one up relatively soon.  From what I've seen so far, it looks like CNCs benefit from high static pressure, while other tools benefit from high CFM.  The Supercell seems to hit the sweet spot right in the middle. I have a small shop, so the Supercell might work really well for all of my tools.  Unfortunately it would preclude me from getting any more 240v tools, including that awesome 15" planer! How big is the dust port on that btw?  Anyway, that's why it was really helpful to hear your opinion on the 1.75hp saw.  That being said, the Dust Cobra looks like a good 120v option.  Maybe it would get the job done just fine.  That way I could have all the fancy tools (eventually) and save myself a few hundred bucks, at least for now, to boot.

As for the power situation, it's completely tapped out.  I have a 100 amp service with a full panel.  The line is buried, and the service box is about 25 feet away from my service entrance. Luckily, it is in my yard though. there is also a 40 amp sub panel for a hot tub coming directly off the main.  I was able to run a sub panel in the garage off a 30amp breaker that the previous owners used to use for a second stove in a basement kitchenette. The electrician thought the service wire could probably handle 125 amps, but when he realized he forgot the new main breaker, he said he felt more comfortable not putting it in anyway and to call him back if I was tripping it. He just said to be careful not to bake a turkey, dry my clothes, use the hot tub, and charge my car all at the same time!  Long story short, I could probably upgrade to a 200 amp service, but with everything, it would cost at least as much as one of the tools themselves.  I'd rather put my money where my wood is.  That sounds bad.

[WarrenX]

On 1/10/2025 at 1:28 PM, Beechwood Chip said:

This may be over-engineering and over the top, but apparently there's a way to add more circuits when your service is at it's max Amperage.  It's a device that goes in your main panel and shuts off circuits as necessary to keep your total amps under the limit.  For example, turning off your electric hot water heater when you turn on your table saw, since turning off your hot water heater for a few minutes won't really bother anyone.

Here's a video, start at 15:40.

 

I've seen the Span before, and I want one!  The panel on its own is over 3000 bucks though.  I saw another smart electrical panel mentioned on a CES video this year, so maybe the prices will come down soon.  Either way it's more of a down the road thing.  Still, it's super cool, and a potential solution! Thanks!

[gee-dub]

On 1/9/2025 at 10:22 AM, Tom King said:

I have said a number of times that less than 3hp is wishful thinking.

I also vote for the dust collector.  Go bigger than you think you need.  I do get by on a 2HP but only due to some really careful duct path planning.  Even still I built out the DC location and power to upgrade to a 5HP if required.  It would be nice but the 2HP is doing the job and I am getting old . 

I agree with @Chestnut that a 1.75HP hybrid can do a great job.  I would probably still have mine but got a windfall of a Saw Stop 3HP.  A well tuned 120v tablesaw can do very well in a home shop. 

I also get by with a 2HP bandsaw.  If a more powerful machine fell in my lap I would pounce on it but the 2HP, used within its capabilities, does a great job.  More power is always nice but not always reasonable or required.

[Mark J]

Getting a clearer picture of the problem.  Maybe consider keeping the whole shop 120V, at least for now.  If later on one machine isn't working for you, you'll know what you have to sell and upgrade.

If your shop space allows a smaller DC could be moved from machine to machine as needed.  This would keep the duct work short and help improve the efficacy of a lower HP unit.  

Go with the 120V SawStop.

A lot of woodworkers have and love the DeWalt 735 planer.  And there is a helical carbide cutter option, though it's $$$.  

If after a couple of years you end up selling, you might take a hit on the DC, but the saw and planer will probably hold their value.

Just a thought.

[Jfitz]

a lot of factors should be taken into account, and all of the above is good info.  For me, a factor was what equipment I already owned when we built a new house.   I already had the DC (120v) and TS (220v 3HP) , so that is what worked for me.  I wish I had run more 220 lines or run conduit for later upgrades, but my shop is close to my panel so it's not a big deal.

I didn't see any replies about adding a subpanel.  This depends on the electrical code in your area, of course, but taking your single 220v breaker and using that to feed a subpanel of, say, 6 220V circuits, is feasible.  I did that in my old shop and it worked great.  Many will say "but my service is only 100A" - but that's 100A of 220V, and for most houses that is a LOT of power.  You usually run out of circuits before you exceed the service.

Another option I've utilized are the "mini breakers" that condense 2 120V circuits into a single slot in your panel (its actually 2 breakers, in a single slot).  This can free up space for another 220v breaker.   There are limits to how many you can use in a single panel, which is why I eventually moved to a subpanel.

[roughsawn]

My 1.75 Saw Stop has done everything I have asked of it over the years. And I work with 2-1/2" slabs.

My 735 planer has done the same. I didn't have to upgrade to a 20" Grizzly, but I wanted to.

My dust control is a hooked up to a dedicated 220. For starters, utilize a 220 cirquit for DC, and make do with 110 tools. You'll find a way to make it work. I've built some wonderful furniture with that set up.

[Beechwood Chip]

Just to pile on, I have a 220V DC and all of my other tools are 120V.  1.75HP Sawstop and DeWalt 735 planer.  It never occurred to me that I needed more power.  The biggest pain is having to wire new 220V outlets when I re-arrange my shop and move the DC. 

I've got a 4" PVC pipe from the DC along one wall, with four iVAC blast gates.  The table saw is permanently connected to one, and the other three have Rockler DustRight  "slinky" hoses and quick connect handles.  Each DustRight hose has a dedicated extension cord with the iVAC tool sensor for that blast gate.  When the tool turns on, the sensor automatically starts the DC and opens the corresponding blast gate.  It's a luxury, but otherwise I usually remember the DC when I'm halfway through the cut and wondering why there's dust everywhere.

I keep the band saw, miter saw, and router table hooked up most of the time.  When I'm milling wood, I disconnect those tools and hook up the jointer and planer.  Just plug in the DustRight handle and the corresponding extension cord and it's good to go.  Everything (except the table saw) is on wheels so I can position tools to handle long boards easily. 

I got the Harvey G-700 and so far I'm pretty happy with it.  It's got a really weird shape, but it fits in my shop nicely.  I've got low ceilings and a lot of plumbing and HVAC ducts on the ceiling, so I have to run my DC duct along the bottom of the walls anyway.  I thought that having to wait 5 seconds for it to come up to full speed would be annoying, but it's not like it doesn't work at all for the first 5 seconds, it's just not at full power.  So, maybe I start a cut when the DC is at 66% of full power which is good enough.

I kinda went crazy trying to improve dust collection for my miter saw, like the coyote trying to catch the road runner.  I ended up with a hood enclosing the miter saw, a dedicated shop vac under the miter saw attached to the Shop Nation miter saw scoop thingy, and a 4" dust collector port for the enclosure.  The miter saw and the shop vac are connected to a switch which goes to a regular 120V plug.  It's attached to iVAC stuff as I described above.  So, to use the miter saw I hit the switch on the front of the enclosure which turns on the shop vac.  The iVAC sensor senses the load from the shop vac and turns on the DC.  If I forget to hit the switch, then nothing happens when I squeeze the miter saw trigger.

[Chestnut]

12 hours ago, WarrenX said:

I'd rather put my money where my wood is.  That sounds bad.

I made a lot of nice pieces of furniture using only 120v tools.

12 hours ago, WarrenX said:

As for the power situation, it's completely tapped out.  I have a 100 amp service with a full panel.  The line is buried, and the service box is about 25 feet away from my service entrance.

I not sure that an electrician will be able to answer for sure if you can or cannot upgrade to 200 amp. I had to call my electrical utility. Utilities don't have the same codes to live by as residential electricians. For example my 4/0 copper 200 amp entrance wire from my meter socket to my panel is WAY larger than the 2/0 wire that runs from the meter to the transformer. I called the utility and was informed they only ever installed 200a rated service drops, i voiced my confusion on the line size and my dad who was a utility electrician for 35 years told me they get to live by different codes. I didn't really understand the answer.

I digress locations matter but the sub panels specifically the hot tub might be able to upgraded to a 60A sub with more spaces, if that sub-panel is close and you have this ability. If your worried about staying within the 100a you can get a cheep clamp amp meter that you can put on 1 of you main legs and give you an idea of how much draw you have. Odds are that you are using no where near 100a.

12 hours ago, WarrenX said:

bake a turkey, dry my clothes, use the hot tub, and charge my car all at the same time

20 + 24+ 24 + 24 = 92 You'd probably be fine but there is a lot to what he said. My 3hp DC runs 13a my 3hp planer is about 9-10 under decent load. Turn off your car charger and that's a 1 man wood shop while baking a turkey, drying your cloths and using the hot tub. You can really only use 1 tool at a time safely. The big kicker is start up amps BUT your breaker isn't going to trip instantly at 100a it takes time. Startup load from my DC spikes as high as 80a breaker is only 30 or 40.