Indy Cindy Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 While repairing our weathered back door the bottom rippled area of wood just peeled right off. Apparently it was a veneer. So of course I removed as much up that loose peeling area as possible and am now left with irregular areas to fill. So I have two questions. 1- how to make a rectangular shape to accept a filler piece of wood and 2- what material to use as that filler. I'm guessing a router and templates will be involved in making the desired shape. But I'm stymied on the filler wood. The thickness of wood I need is approximately 1/16" and unfortunately I don't have a thicknessing sander to mill something like that. Hand planing a thicker inset piece of wood is not in my skill set.Suggestions?Cindy (really regretting my spur of the moment decision to tackle this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I would startby ripping the whole bottom veneer off and replacing it after filling those cracks. rather than trying to insert a filter in the irregular shape. Do you have a planer? you could also router sled a new piece to desired thickness or just proud then Sand to thickness? Edited August 5, 2015 by Brendon_t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Could always put a brass kick plate there if the look appeals to you. If this is the bottom, you could put slightly thicker material on if you bevel the top. You could also run a circ saw set shallow to remove more material to use thicker veneer. You are going to want to stabilize the cracks also. Edited August 5, 2015 by C Shaffer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Brendon, it is the vertical sections that are the problem, I am going to leave the center panel at the bottom, it is mostly intact. For the vertical panel I chiseled in a nice stopping line so when I tore off the veneer it would leave a nice rectangle. Unfortunately it all didn't come off evenly and part is still pretty well stuck. How to remove that stuck part is a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Ouch, sorry Cindy. I also misread that photo. I think I would cut a "scarf" angle across the veneer. Maximize what can stay (and minimize what you remove) but give yourself a straight line to butt against. The only trick then is getting some material to the right thickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Hmm now that's a horse of a different color ( movie reference for 50?)How wide is your thickest chisel?I know you are plane adverse but that's the first thing that comes to mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I would try, if possible, to remove the entire stile veneer if possible. Ultimately, you'll need to get a nice flat and square surface to work with. I'm sure that you can pick up some thin material as a replacement since, I assume, you're painting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strasberry Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you have a scribe line on the vertical piece, you can use a wood chisel to carve off the rest of the veneer to the scribe line. then making sure the area is smooth and flush, glue down a piece of veneer after making sure your joints line up. the little bit that may stick out should be easily sanded off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Here are some more pictures. Ouch, sorry Cindy. I also misread that photo. Yeah, the picture wasn't clear. I attached a couple more that might be more helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 How do you feel about 60 grit paper on that orbit sander? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySats Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Perhaps someone local with a drum sander can help you out . I doubt the veneers you buy now are thick enough to match your old material . How think is the veneer on there now ? I would square off the ends where it meets good wood , try using a sharp utility knife to score your line , take light cuts and work through the veneer that way . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I'd find a Habitat store, and get another door. Get one that's not veneered.1011 E 22nd St,, Indianapolis Edited August 5, 2015 by Tom King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Cindy, I'm about to do something very similiar. Assuming you will be sanding the rest of the surface and repainting the door, I'm going to dam the perimeter of the bad area and fill it in with epoxy, sand and paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 The lumber core appears to be starting to delaminate. I'm with Tom King it might be better to replace it. If your going to keep it why not just use Bondo ? There are similar products especially for wood. I think Minwax sells one. Sand and clean up all the peeling paint and veneer then bondo the missing veneer places. Sand prime and paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 The chisel idea is working! Here is a picture of the cleaned up left side, almost makes me want to do the whole thing. NO! More to do on the right side that has a bigger damaged area. Once I got to clean wood it turns out that some veneered areas are nearly 1/8 inch thick but others are almost nothing. I will try milling some wood tomorrow to see how thin I can go with my planer. I do see filler of some sort involved in this project and sealing other cracked areas, sanding to fair transitions. Yeah, we need a new door, but it gets jumped on and scratched up by the dogs so it isn't on my list. Good to know about the Habitat store, I will keep that in mind. Cindy, I'm about to do something very similiar. Assuming you will be sanding the rest of the surface and repainting the door, I'm going to dam the perimeter of the bad area and fill it in with epoxy, sand and paint.Coop, I've only used epoxy as an adhesive. Will it sand well and accept paint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 The chisel idea is working! Here is a picture of the cleaned up left side, almost makes me want to do the whole thing. NO! More to do on the right side that has a bigger damaged area. Once I got to clean wood it turns out that some veneered areas are nearly 1/8 inch thick but others are almost nothing. I will try milling some wood tomorrow to see how thin I can go with my planer. I do see filler of some sort involved in this project and sealing other cracked areas, sanding to fair transitions. Yeah, we need a new door, but it gets jumped on and scratched up by the dogs so it isn't on my list. Good to know about the Habitat store, I will keep that in mind. Coop, I've only used epoxy as an adhesive. Will it sand well and accept paint?you know, I thought about that after saying it. I'm checking into that now. Maybe others with better knowledge will lend an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I'm with Steve on this one. Assuming you prefer to not replace the door, stabilize the core with epoxy, pare away the damaged veneer up to a cleanly scored line, then use Bondo to re-surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 According to forum wooden boat.com, latex can be and often is applied over the epoxy once it has fully cured. Roughing it first with 80 grt. and washing it clean. Some used primers first, others didn't, without a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Making progress! Thanks everyone for your suggestions, I learned something from each one of you! I used my block plane as well as 1" chisel to remove the veneer up to good wood on the stiles followed by sanding. I'm happy to use some of the hand skills I learned at Marc Adams earlier this year, esp. scoring and chiseling to a line when we learned hand cut dovetails. I was pretty sure I would never hand cut a dovetail in the real world but I didn't know that I would use that technique for something else. Next up, milling some wood for the veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Awesome, keep us posted on your progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Looking great Cindy! Where there's a will, there's always a way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Rain today so the project is now in my shop. I decided to remove most of the paint since so much of it was coming off, chisel, block plane, dremel, orbital sander, hand sanding blocks shoulder plane, more sanding, more sanding, more sanding. . . I had good success resawing some poplar to the correct dimension, my Rockler Thin Strip jig worked great for that. That task also pushed me to making a tall auxiliary fence for my bandsaw, boy that was easy, should have done that before. I cut my veneer pieces to size with Xacto knife, worked great. New door knob purchased, feeling pretty good about the project.I decided to glue in one of the veneer sections before going to bed and let it dry over night. OMG. That piece sucked up the moisture in the glue and curled up, I would need a veneer press to get it to stick evenly. I pulled it off and am contemplating my options. I used Titebond III, maybe epoxy would have been better? I'm considering ditching the veneer and going with Bondo that Steve and a few others suggested.Here is the latest picture, before the gluing disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strasberry Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Cindy the titebond should work ok, try and use a block of 8/4 material about the same size as the patch and either clamp it really good or use a heavy weight and set it on the block. I have also used contact cement to put down veneer. a little less forgiving but works good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Thanks, Jerry. The block of wood I was using was lots bigger than the patch. When I clamped it the veneer piece slid around but I couldn't see it to help keep it lined up. So I then I used smaller pieces of wood that didn't span the entire space and didn't go all the way to the edge and I could see it curling up. Interestingly the veneer piece has now gone back to flat and looks for all the world like pre-glued commercial veneer that is applied with heat.The Titebond III (which I used) says it has a long open time, Titebond II says it has a strong initial tack, maybe that will help me. I applied glue evenly to both surfaces and let it sit a few minutes before pressing them together but it was still pretty slippery and by the time it became sticky (after 30+ minutes of clamping attempts) the veneer was curling.I will smooth both surfaces and make a correctly sized caul and give this patch another go. Thanks for the advice and encouragement. The veneer piece is now glue sealed so I shouldn't have the curling problem this time! This is the smaller piece, not sure what glue to use on it now or if it matters. For the bigger irregular piece I think I will go with the Titebond II and be prepared with a correctly sized caul for it too. I'm also thinking of blue taping the veneer piece into place before clamping. Any reason not to do that? Edited August 7, 2015 by Indy Cindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 April Wilkerson suggests using table salt from a salt shaker on glued surfaces to keep the pieces from sliding around. I've never tried it, myself. I like the blue tape idea. Another trick is to put some brads into the door and clip off the heads, leaving just a little point slightly proud of the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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