Cliff

Kitchen remodel/countertop build

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1 minute ago, Cliff said:

There is technically no glue between the end grain portions. It just happens to be where two boards meet, the glue itself is on the long grain underneath. I think you are stuck on this sewing thing. Anytime two things meat in a visible line it can be considered a seam. Or not. I don't actually care. :D

At my level of woodworking, the glue line is very often visible. But I turned it into a feature. Because I'm clever. And awesome.

Cheer up it'll get better my glue lines sucked at first too.  They still probably aren't as good as some but i can get 75% of them to look invisible.

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8 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Cheer up it'll get better my glue lines sucked at first too.  They still probably aren't as good as some but i can get 75% of them to look invisible.

They are improving.. like this:

20160514_153541.jpg

If you zoom in you can find gaps, but they are because I have trouble cutting a true uniform 1/4" piece on my table saw. Need a drum sander to sorta even it out. Or better technique.

But those JOINTS (trademark @Eric) on the counter were kind of a different story. I think they'd be visible no matter what due to the nature of the joint type. Maybe? Not sure. I saw a piece last night that was nearly flawless, but he told me that's because it comes from a factory where they machine the joints. It's those tiny finger joints but instead of square they are triangles.

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11 hours ago, wdwerker said:

Joints are what you use when you don't have a water bong !

Great! Now you've made me thirsty.

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I won't argue proper terminology @Mike. as I would think "merge a database? you mean, remove the tables from one and put them in the other? But I get "join."

In this instance, we need a way to refer to the exact point where end grain meets endgrain on the top of the counter. This is a very specific part of the joint. Just like there is a mortise and a tenon and referring to a tenon as "joint" is very non-specific. So that leaves us with a choice of words - line, seam, gap, junction, where the boards meet on top, etc. To me, that is a seam because joint doesn't give me all the information I need to accurately convey whatever point I was making (which I no longer remember what I even said to begin with.)

Collectively I would like everyone to decide what this is and tell me the right term so I can return to life as normal. If it has to be joint, then that's fine. I'll adjust. :D

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8 minutes ago, Cliff said:

@Mike.

In this instance, we need a way to refer to the exact point where end grain meets endgrain on the top of the counter.

Butt joint.

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They are improving.. like this:

20160514_153541.jpg

If you zoom in you can find gaps, but they are because I have trouble cutting a true uniform 1/4" piece on my table saw. Need a drum sander to sorta even it out.

If you are having trouble getting the 1/4 piece perfect off the saw, make it perfect with a handplane. No excuse for gappy joints- ever. As you hone your skills is what i mean. At the beginning I understand it happens to everyone. Next time, use a handplane if you can get the joint perfect off the saw.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Eric. said:

Butt joint.

Fine! If I could find a definition of the word "seam" that didn't explicitly state sewing of two pieces of fabric together, I'd launch a full frontal assault on you sir. :)

 

18 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

 

 

If you are having trouble getting the 1/4 piece perfect off the saw, make it perfect with a handplane. No excuse for gappy joints- ever. As you hone your skills is what i mean. At the beginning I understand it happens to everyone. Next time, use a handplane if you can get the joint perfect off the saw.

 

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

 

I'm concerned about trying that because I don't have a proper bench for locking a piece in place. All I can do is clamp the piece to my bench and then the clamp will be covering part of the spot I need to go over with the plane. That make sense? In other words, I'm worried I'll make the issue worse. Worse is usually what happens to me when I attempt to finesse a glue line with panels.

 

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1 minute ago, Cliff said:

Fine! If I could find a definition of the word "seam" that didn't explicitly state sewing of two pieces of fabric together, I'd launch a full frontal assault on you sir. :)

 

 

I'm concerned about trying that because I don't have a proper bench for locking a piece in place. All I can do is clamp the piece to my bench and then the clamp will be covering part of the spot I need to go over with the plane. That make sense? In other words, I'm worried I'll make the issue worse. Worse is usually what happens to me when I attempt to finesse a glue line with panels.

 

Do you have a vise? Is the problem using a handplane to plane thin pieces or edges of panels. I was specifically talking about cleaning up the face of that 1/4" piece that you glued up in the photo. For a panel edge the jointer should get you there...

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10 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

Do you have a vise? Is the problem using a handplane to plane thin pieces or edges of panels. I was specifically talking about cleaning up the face of that 1/4" piece that you glued up in the photo. For a panel edge the jointer should get you there...

I don't think I am explaining well. the 1/4" thick piece of purpleheart when it came off the blade had a section where the teeth of the saw blade had taken out more material than the rest. In a half circle. this left a very small gap when I glued them together. It was on the bottom so I ignored it. That piece, if I try to plane it, I don't know how I'd keep it fixed in place. My bench dogs are higher than 1/4" so my plane would slam into them. So I'd have to use a clamp to secure it to the top of my bench. And thats where I was worried I'd just end up tapering the piece. 

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1 minute ago, Cliff said:

I don't think I am explaining well. the 1/4" thick piece of purpleheart when it came off the blade had a section where the teeth of the saw blade had taken out more material than the rest. In a half circle. this left a very small gap when I glued them together. It was on the bottom so I ignored it. That piece, if I try to plane it, I don't know how I'd keep it fixed in place. My bench dogs are higher than 1/4" so my plane would slam into them. So I'd have to use a clamp to secure it to the top of my bench. And thats where I was worried I'd just end up tapering the piece. 

i totally get it. If you clamped a thinner piece (1/8"-3/16") of wood down to act as a plane stop it would be a quick and easy process. Try using something like this 

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/108812/a-planing-stop-for-long-and-thin-boards 

If you are taking a shaving from the beginning of the piece to the end of the piece, technically you shouldn't taper it. If you don't try, you will never know ! 

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3 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

i totally get it. If you clamped a thinner piece (1/8"-3/16") of wood down to act as a plane stop it would be a quick and easy process. Try using something like this 

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/108812/a-planing-stop-for-long-and-thin-boards 

If you are taking a shaving from the beginning of the piece to the end of the piece, technically you shouldn't taper it. If you don't try, you will never know ! 

Well I'm gonna add that planing stop to the list of things that should have been obvious. Thanks sir.

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3 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

i totally get it. If you clamped a thinner piece (1/8"-3/16") of wood down to act as a plane stop it would be a quick and easy process. Try using something like this 

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/108812/a-planing-stop-for-long-and-thin-boards 

If you are taking a shaving from the beginning of the piece to the end of the piece, technically you shouldn't taper it. If you don't try, you will never know ! 

 

I was mentally trying to figure out how to clean up strips from my bandsaw for the last few days that didn't involve buying a drum sander. Thanks Shane!

 

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2 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Well I'm gonna add that planing stop to the list of things that should have been obvious. Thanks sir.

 

1 minute ago, Chestnut said:

 

I was mentally trying to figure out how to clean up strips from my bandsaw for the last few days that didn't involve buying a drum sander. Thanks Shane!

 

I use these. Works great if you have the dog holes to accept them. My bench has a homemade Mft top so these do a great job

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70683&cat=1,43838,70865

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17 minutes ago, shaneymack said:

 

I use these. Works great if you have the dog holes to accept them. My bench has a homemade Mft top so these do a great job

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70683&cat=1,43838,70865

Oh awesome. I'll drill new holes to accept that. I can see that coming in handy in a number of situations.

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1 hour ago, Cliff said:

My bench dogs are higher than 1/4" so my plane would slam into them.

put a piece of 1/4" plywood on the bench butted up against the dogs, then put your workpiece on top of that, now the dogs shouldn't be able to bite your plane.

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Just now, Mike. said:

I just run them through my planer.  A dewalt 735 on the slow setting should get your a perfect glue surface.  1/4" thick stock can be safely run through the planer.  Yes you might get some snipe, but if you plan ahead you can leave it a little long.  

I was hoping to put off announcing how stupid I am but now you've forced my hand. I didn't think about it until about 2 hours ago. I'm smacking my forehead.

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1 hour ago, Mike. said:

I just run them through my planer.  A dewalt 735 on the slow setting should get your a perfect glue surface.  1/4" thick stock can be safely run through the planer.  Yes you might get some snipe, but if you plan ahead you can leave it a little long.  

 

1 hour ago, Cliff said:

I was hoping to put off announcing how stupid I am but now you've forced my hand. I didn't think about it until about 2 hours ago. I'm smacking my forehead.

I thought about my 735 but i ran thin strips through before and they broke and turned into a mess. I thought they were 1/4" maybe even a bit thicker.

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Just now, Mike. said:

Maybe you were taking too heavy a cut.  I have planed stock as thin as 1/8" without a problem.  

Does it matter if it was maple? That stuff hates me and will tear out and splinter no matter what i do with it.

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4 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Does it matter if it was maple? That stuff hates me and will tear out and splinter no matter what i do with it.

Wow really? So far it's one of my favorites to deal with. Though it makes my table saw hate me. I just don't have a lot of power.

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10 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Wow really? So far it's one of my favorites to deal with. Though it makes my table saw hate me. I just don't have a lot of power.

I was sawing some 3" thick hickory last night. Managed to make the saw bog down a bit, I can say it'd be nice for 3 hp but for the performance I'm getting from the PM1000 i can manage with out.

 

10 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Sharpen your knives (or replace).  Maple is the acid test for potentially dull knives.   Make sure you are not cutting against the grain. 

I'm sure it's all maple but the stuff i get changes grain direction every 3 inches so it's a crap shoot which direction is better for feeding. Nice part about hand planes is i can change direction with it. Maybe i'll give the 1/4" a try again on a more forgiving board.

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5 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

I was sawing some 3" thick hickory last night.

 

That's a job for the bandsaw.  I have 3hp but I wouldn't put my TS through that.

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2 minutes ago, Eric. said:

That's a job for the bandsaw.  I have 3hp but I wouldn't put my TS through that.

I really wanted to but i wasn't confidant that it was nail free so i stuck a crappy blade on the table saw and went for it. I couldn't stand to trash another laguna resaw king.

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Today was finally the day to take the stuff to get flattened. It went really well. Of course, this wood sucked so bad that I ended up at 1 1/16th inch for the big counter. :( Oh well. 

The guy has a 37" wide belt sander that he got for $2k. He keeps 80 grit on it. I don't even think he uses his planer, which looks like it's the first one ever made. 

c.jpg

 

Took around 45 minutes to flatten and bring stuff down to the same thickness. Well, the big ones are the same thickness.

e.jpg

 

I like this thing he has

d.jpg

 

Brought them home and squared/trimmed the parts that needed it.

a.jpg

 

Sanded for 4-5 hours. 120, 180, 220, 320. 

b.jpg

 

So when I brought these home today, all the joints for the panels were great. now, almost every single one has a gap at each edge. I'm concerned because this happened on the smaller one before and I just figured it was because it was too cold for the glue (so I tore it apart and redid it,) but these were done in my basement at 71 degrees. The small was one has been glued up and sitting for 3 weeks now and suddenly today it starts splitting on the glue line? Today did seem high in humidity, is it possible this Cletus wood is just terrible and that is how it is going to be? The only thing I can think to do is pour some epoxy in and scrape it. I just don't have enough material anymore to start tearing stuff apart. My joints were all pretty good, not perfect, because the jointer sorta died, but it hasn't even separated in the place where my joint was less than perfect - it's doing it everywhere else.

If anyone has ideas or comments, wouldn't mind hearing.

 

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35 minutes ago, Mike. said:

Overall it is looking pretty good to me, Cliff. 

I wouldnt be quick to blame the cletus wood.  If your edges werent perfectly jointed there is always a risk they will come apart and they typically come apart near the end. why? well because there is no more glue holding it together there :). What I mean is that if you have a gappy section but two good sections on either side, the glue on those good sections will hold.  But once you get toward the end of and of the board there is little glue surface to compensate and hold things together. 

 

 

You are probably right. It is just weird that everything sorta opened up this morning. Maybe the movement helps? This wood was really hard to joint correctly. It's probably inexperience but it just seemed like I could never get it perfect. Don't have this problem with other things. 

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Lookin good Cliff. Sorry to hear about the sudden gapping. Ive had weird things happen in climate shifts too. Lookin forward to seein your end results and good luck with the jointer!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

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