prov163 Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I'm working on teaching myself to hand cut dovetails. I've been using my LN tapered carcass saw so my results aren't as good as I hoped by now. I attribute that in part to using the wrong tool for the task. So I am getting ready to purchase a LN dovetail saw. I am trying to decide whether to buy the regular or tapered. I always get great advice here. Do any of you have experience using both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I'm also interested in this. I currently use Japanese saws for everything but I've been thinking about getting the LN for dovetails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brendon_t Posted September 11, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 After blaming my gappy dovetails on using the wrong saw, buying a DT saw was a bad idea because I had to change my excuse. After upgrading my marking knife, I came to terms that the saw and marking knife were much less to blame than my not properly sawing to the line and not thinking properly in terms of should I cut the line,leave the line, or split it. A nice DT saw weather tapered or straight will cut well. I like a plate with brass back for the weight. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 They didn't make the tapered saw when I bought mine and I managed to get them right eventually. Either one will require practice. I think the tapered saw is a gimmick...no worse, but no better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 You need to buy a dovetail saw as the tooth form is rip. Your carcass saw most likely is a crosscut saw and isn't designed for dovetails. The taper is designed to enable you to steer the cut in the initial stages of the cut. Essentially you use short strokes at the narrow end, twisting the plate accordingly, to get you back on course then use the entire plate to do the cut. Disston created this way back in the past with their panel saws. Look at the hump backed ones that a lot of manufacturers produce nowadays including LN. That hump does have a purpose. I see from the specs that they both LN saws have a 3 thou set. That might be too much for a DT saw as mine have little if any set (probably 1.5 thou). I use a sheet of newspaper on either side of the plate as shimming material, leaving the teeth protruding and squeeze the teeth in a machinists vise. This pushes the teeth back in and gives less set. The paper is not appreciably compressible and this is a simple task to do. When cutting dovetails whether tails first or pins first try to use a 0.5 mm mechanical pencil to transfer the cuts onto the mating parts. Then cut in the waste side so you leave the pencil line intact.. Keep the saw square, watch your elbow so it acts like a pendulum and use a hard wood to practice on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 I've just remembered where I learnt the squeezing method except I just use 1.5 thou regular newspaper. Mike Wenzloff also wraps the teeth as well letting the teeth perforate the paper but I just leave the teeth protruding with the paper under the gullet - same results. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/get-a-consistent-set-on-your-saw-with-paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted September 12, 2016 Report Share Posted September 12, 2016 16 hours ago, prov163 said: I'm working on teaching myself to hand cut dovetails. I've been using my LN tapered carcass saw so my results aren't as good as I hoped by now. I attribute that in part to using the wrong tool for the task. So I am getting ready to purchase a LN dovetail saw. I am trying to decide whether to buy the regular or tapered. I always get great advice here. Do any of you have experience using both? I really doubt that it is the saw. There is no difference in the results of a tapered vs non-tapered saw. I am inclined to view tapered saws as a fashion design. Very few vintage saws were originally made with taper. Most with taper are the result of plates that slipped in their backs. If the teeth have too much set (unlikely with LN, but not impossible), the kerf will be rougher, but that will not affect accuracy. It is much more likely to be your technique. Post pictures of your results for critique. Regards from Perth Derek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 On September 11, 2016 at 11:23 PM, TerryMcK said: I've just remembered where I learnt the squeezing method except I just use 1.5 thou regular newspaper. Mike Wenzloff also wraps the teeth as well letting the teeth perforate the paper but I just leave the teeth protruding with the paper under the gullet - same results. http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/get-a-consistent-set-on-your-saw-with-paper On September 11, 2016 at 11:23 PM, TerryMcK said: I have three different Dt saws my favorite is from Mike W. Ive sharpened it several time but it's not nearly as nice as when I first got it.I should send it back because what he does I can't. It one of my least favorite woodworking tasks sharpening my hand saws . To the op LN makes nice saws you just can't go wrong. Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Hmm that's strange. I didn't type that last quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMasco Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 I have been using Japanese saws for over 20 years. Recently I saw a great deal on two LN saws, a rip and cc for joinery. Wow! These saws are great. For me the learning curve was about 15 practice cuts to a knife line. I hardly use the Japanese saws at all any more and marvel at the performance of these LN saws everytime I use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 Since we are discussing dovetail saws, has anyone tried out the Veritas saw? Veritas is not a name I associate with cheap or low quality, are the LN and Rob Cosman really a big step up to justify the much higher prices (2x and 4x more respectively) for a hobbyist, or is this more like going from a 98/100 up to a 99/100? $59 for the Veritas http://www.woodcraft.com/product/153370/veritas-standard-dovetail-saw-14-tpi.aspx $125 for the LN https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/dovetail-saws-dovetail-saw $250 for the Rob Cosman http://www.woodcraft.com/product/150090/rob-cosmans-black-resin-hand-saw-dovetail.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 They all cut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 I have the Veritas carcass and dovetail saws. I like them both very much. I have yet to cut dovetails with it as it's fairly new but I don't see myself needing more than that. When i was a young fella full a piss an' vinegar, I cut my dovetails with a pax gents saw. If I could make that pos work, I'm sure the Veritas will be just fine lol. I couldn't spend the money on a Rob Cosman saw because I don't feel like i will ever cut enough dovetails by hand to justify that cost. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Isaac Gaetz said: Since we are discussing dovetail saws, has anyone tried out the Veritas saw? Yes. I have one and it performs really well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 1 hour ago, TerryMcK said: Yes. I have one and it performs really well. Good deal. I think that one just made my Christmas list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 3 hours ago, shaneymack said: I couldn't spend the money on a Rob Cosman saw because I don't feel like i will ever cut enough dovetails by hand to justify that cost. And it's Rob Cosman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawDustB Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 I thought I would mention for anyone in Canada near a Lee Valley store wanting to try the Veritas saws, they're having free seminars where you can try all of their saws and accessories on Saturday. I called and signed up for one, since I was thinking of picking up a couple of the saws soon anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 And it's Rob Cosman. You don't like him? I think he is a pretty good woodworker. Can't deny he is a good teacher and great at cutting dovetails ! Saws look pretty awesome as well but dang pricey. But he is Canadian, I like all Canadians Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted September 15, 2016 Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 He cuts dovetails fast. I don't have that much respect for that one accomplishment. I've never seen him build furniture, just one quarter of a drawer over and over again. Maybe I missed it. He's way too cocky for my taste and needs to get over himself and his Blagojevich haircut. And his saws have plastic handles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted September 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2016 I'm sure Cosman is a nice guy but I've tried watching him and, for me, he comes off like the Ron Popeil of dovetails. I'm not doubting Cosman's abilities and he is successful but I'm in Eric's camp on this one. On the other hand I just found out Frank Klausz lives less than 2 hours from good friends of mine and if I thought for a minute he'd teach me to cut dovetails in person, I'd make the trip As for the Blagojevich/Cosman comparison, I'm still awed by how much Eric looks like Krenov. His avatar is almost a spitting image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 I don't like Cosman or his haircut, but man he's a sharpening beast. I'm training myself on freehand sharpening and watched his videos and Sellers many, many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 14 minutes ago, prov163 said: I'm still awed by how much Eric looks like Krenov. His avatar is almost a spitting image. It's like they're twins no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 I met him at a WW show, probably at least 15 years ago & at the time he was the Lie Nielsen Canadian distributor. Watched his planing & sharpening & dovetail demos which was all very impressive. But man, what an opinionated know-it-all! When I tried to buy a rabbit block plane (because I already had a decent block plane) he just about wouldn't sell it to me. Wanted me to buy the standard block plane. I prevailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 Wow I had no idea, I just saw one or two of his videos and then came across the saw. Looking at his website, he seems to mostly be selling little boxes ranging from business card holders to bread box size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted September 16, 2016 Report Share Posted September 16, 2016 Since we are discussing dovetail saws, has anyone tried out the Veritas saw? Veritas is not a name I associate with cheap or low quality, are the LN and Rob Cosman really a big step up to justify the much higher prices (2x and 4x more respectively) for a hobbyist, or is this more like going from a 98/100 up to a 99/100? $59 for the Veritas http://www.woodcraft.com/product/153370/veritas-standard-dovetail-saw-14-tpi.aspx $125 for the LN https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/dovetail-saws-dovetail-saw $250 for the Rob Cosman http://www.woodcraft.com/product/150090/rob-cosmans-black-resin-hand-saw-dovetail.aspx I have the veritas, it works great. I'm sure the others are great too, but I went veritas because I'd the price, and I haven't regretted it so far. To be clear, I don't advocate always going cheap, but when Lee valley is the cheaper option, I trust them enough to save a few bucks. Also, I have seen snippets of cosmans furniture on his YouTube channel, it is high quality. Check it out if you're doubtful of his ability beyond just dovetails. Nothing groundbreaking AFAIK, but he's legit. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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