Isaac Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Was just reading this piece on NPR. Not trying to re-hash the sawstop patent law discussion, but this line jumped out at me. "Gass says SawStop is about to come out with a $400 saw with his injury prevention system." I'm assuming that will be more of a contractor saw than a woodworkers saw, but still, that is a tremendous drop compared to their current jobsite saw, at $1300. That would have to be a game changer, I can't see why, if you are in the market for a contractor saw, you wouldn't by one with sawstop technology if the price were that competitive. Anyone have any information about this? http://www.npr.org/2017/08/10/542474093/despite-proven-technology-attempts-to-make-table-saws-safer-drag-on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Interesting article thanks for sharing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus A Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Is he still trying to get laws enacted to require a safety system? (where Sawstop is almost the only option). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chet Posted August 10, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 At $400 I wonder if it is actually something equivalent to a construction type circular saw, like a Skilsaw. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, Chet said: At $400 I wonder if it is actually something equivalent to a construction type circular saw, like a Skilsaw. No Idea, though, I'm trying to imagine how the breaking action would work in that scenario. Part of the genius of sawstop is that it not only stops the blade, but also drops it away instantly. Related question, do skils saws result in as many finger cut off type injuries? conceivable, but must be less common, right? The bigger risk for those is kickback of the entire saw, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Isaac said: Related question, do skils saws result in as many finger cut off type injuries? conceivable, but must be less common, right? The bigger risk for those is kickback of the entire saw, isn't it? Yes, kickback of the entire saw...into your other hand that's holding the workpiece. I think finger cut injuries are quite common on the circular saw. Anecdotal I know, but I know a flooring installer who was ripping down a piece with a circular saw, the saw kicked back and cut the last 1" of his thumb off. He went to the hospital, got it sewed back on, and was back on the jobsite after lunch. Guy's a maniac. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Just now, bgreenb said: Yes, kickback of the entire saw...into your other hand that's holding the workpiece. I think finger cut injuries are quite common on the circular saw. Anecdotal I know, but I know a flooring installer who was ripping down a piece with a circular saw, the saw kicked back and cut the last 1" of his thumb off. He went to the hospital, got it sewed back on, and was back on the jobsite after lunch. Guy's a maniac. Thanks for the real world experience. That makes a lot sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post woodbutcher74 Posted August 10, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 I've seen framing carpenters lay a 2X across their leg and saw it off amd have heard horror stories of guys running a kerk right through the top of their thigh. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bgreenb Posted August 10, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, woodbutcher74 said: I've seen framing carpenters lay a 2X across their leg and saw it off amd have heard horror stories of guys running a kerk right through the top of their thigh. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. All of the framing guys on my renovation had their circular saw guards pinned back by shims Every once in a while one of them would prematurely put his down after a cut and the thing would dance around on the floor as the blade spun down. Yeesh. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, woodbutcher74 said: I've seen framing carpenters lay a 2X across their leg and saw it off amd have heard horror stories of guys running a kerk right through the top of their thigh. Makes me cringe just thinking about it. This is what I was thinking about when I posted my comment above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat60 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 For the most part I use two hands on the saw and one foot holding down on the lumber. Still have my foot. I also have a friend that has been doing siding and carpentry for years as I was and he almost cut his finger off with a skilsaw. He told me that he was in a hurry. The low powered 71/4 saws dont kick back as bad as a worm drive saw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post drzaius Posted August 11, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 As a personal safety check, before a difficult or unusual cut, I'll imagine what it would look like if I saw someone else doing it in a video. I'm always hyper aware of safety when watching others. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottacat Posted August 11, 2017 Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 Interesting, the wording of the article makes it hard to tell whether Gass was referring to a circular saw or a table saw (the article was specifically about table saws). I can't see SawStop coming out with a $400 job site saw. It's a huge drop from their current offering and they would have to drop a lot of features which isn't how SawStop is currently positioning itself. For the price, a circular saw seems most likely. When I've mentioned my SawStop to friends who are physicians they first react by telling about all the saw injuries they see. When I ask them for more details a surprising number are in fact from circular saws instead of table saws. I've often wondered if all those stats about table saw injuries are in fact also including circular saw injuries. However, circular saws obviously couldn't made quite as safe as the blade can't drop, they could only stop it (which of course would still be an improvement). However I do wonder about accidental trips of the brake as circular saws cut are used to cut wet, pressure treated wood a lot. I guess we'll find out in time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2017 I really appreciate the discussion guys. I'm an engineer, not a contractor, so I've got a circular saw I've used on various weekend warrior projects, but not nearly to the extent a pro would use one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmotjr Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 I'd have to think, as a contractor, I'd be reluctant to use a sawstop circular saw. I think about all the materials these guys cut on a regular basis, and a lot of it has a potential to trigger the brake. Treated wood for example, or any metal. Or moisture, they do work outside often enough. And then there's the saw horses. You're not supposed to cut through the horse, but the vast majority of wooden horses I've seen always have at least a few kerfs run through them. Those things are almost like pallets, who knows whats gotten embedded into them. Don't get me wrong, I feel it's a wonderful technology, and should almost be required on saws. Almost. But as a commercial tool, used in such a variety of scenarios, I'd be hard pressed to justify the extra cost of the base tool, and then the number of replacement brakes I'd have to keep on hand just in case. If you have a safe crew, then it probably doesn't outweigh the potential costs of an injury. EDIT: But for hobbyists, I can easily see them selling a $400 Table saw. A small job site saw that alot of people who aren't hardcore would keep in their garage. The profit margin on the saw itself could be kept lower, to keep the retail price down, but like ink jet printers, they can jack up the price of the replacement brakes, as they know these types of users are very likely to trigger it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted August 12, 2017 Report Share Posted August 12, 2017 -- rant on -- " Every day, more than 10 Americans suffer amputations on what is by far the most dangerous woodworking tool: the table saw. " The ignoramuses that make statements like this really tick me off. They use the same playbook as folks citing firearm stats. -- rant off -- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat60 Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Marmotjr said: I feel it's a wonderful technology, that should never be required on saws. Fixed it for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, gee-dub said: -- rant on -- " Every day, more than 10 Americans suffer amputations on what is by far the most dangerous woodworking tool: the table saw. " The ignoramuses that make statements like this really tick me off. They use the same playbook as folks citing firearm stats. -- rant off -- What is the no spin truth to it? If I get hurt in my shop, I blame myself, not the tool. But I would say my table saw is the tool I most consciously think about safety during every single use of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Has anyone thought that with the festool acquisition, that maybe it is a circular saw module that could be mounted in a table. Similar to the Festool TS saw modules in Europe that have failed to get UL approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post gee-dub Posted August 13, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, Isaac said: What is the no spin truth to it? If I get hurt in my shop, I blame myself, not the tool. But I would say my table saw is the tool I most consciously think about safety during every single use of it. JMHO - They cite every incident they can. Take the guy who uses the saw after three beers or the guy who doesn't even know which way the blade spins but, is tasked with using a saw on the jobsite out of the equation. Cite every time a tablesaw did something it wasn't supposed to without the operator making an error in method, process or judgement. It does happen; wood stress release, bad braise on a carbide tooth, unexpected foreign material in the "wood". However, if I shoot myself in the foot while cleaning my loaded gun after three shots of Jack . . . did the gun do it? By the logic being used, no one should be allowed near a car let alone be licensed and insured to drive one . I'm sure glad I'm not opinionated . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chet Posted August 13, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, gee-dub said: the most dangerous woodworking tool Some times it's the person turning it on. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 As some of you here know I just lurk here on this forum. Yes I have some rudimentary woodworking tools but I'm by no means a wood worker. (Still in the process of building a shop area and not sure I can take on the expense to outfit it as an actual wood working shop with the type of tools I'd like). I also must admit that after reading the first paragraph of the article I did a scan of the rest of it. I'm not trying to stir up a much larger discussion and create controversy, but the first 2 paragraphs was all I needed to see. I for one am sick and tired of government telling/forcing me to do or purchase things that should be left to my own judgement. Do I believe that sawstop technology has prevented injury? Asolutely!!! Do I think that buying the safest equipment on the market is a good idea? Absolutely!!! Can everyone afford sawstop technology? Absolutely NOT!!! As others have mentioned there really is no limit to the slippery slope of have politicians taking more and more control over our lives. Government long ago crossed the line of their mandated responsibilities and it long over due that "we the people" push back. Our elected representatives have far larger threats to deal with that placing yet another restriction on the public. In the case of wood working tools or any other activity other than sitting on the couch there are risks. Mr Gass has come up with a great technology. Now IMHO it should be up to ME as to weather I'm willing to pay the additional cost for that safety feature. In fact this has become part of m thought process when considering the purchase of a table saw. This technology would roughly double my cost for this piece of equipment for the size and function of the type of saw I'd prefer in my shop. Fortunately the sawstop line of products covers the spectrum of high quality. What I'm not convinced of is will a safety brake on a cheap saw really make it safer of will it just make a crappy piece of equipment prohibitive for the hobbyist. Final thought. Usually when it comes to something the government feels the need to insert itself into that is not provided for in our government framework, all one needs to do is follow the money or who stands to gain more power as a result. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Mike T said: Government long ago crossed the line of their mandated responsibilities and it long over due that "we the people" push back. This discussion has been fine so far but is coming dangerously close to politics and that is an out of bounds area on the forums. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 I totally agree and as stated I am not trying to start a political discussion. If I've over stepped, my apologies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Steve Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 So with all the talk of "I should be able to buy whatever I want..." Ryobi lost another lawsuit for a kid who lost his finger this year... https://dailyhornet.com/2017/2-million-awarded-in-ryobi-table-saw-injury-lawsuit/ I think the key takeaway from this article is "Mai was using the table saw to install hardwood floors in a woman’s home in South Philadelphia. He was 19 years old and did not have experience using table saws, but was told to cut a length of flooring." So the kid didn't buy the saw... it was provided by his employer. So he really didn't have a choice. I think if Sawstop does come out with a little table saw for $400, it'd be best for everyone in the industry if other makers licensed the tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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