Building a small shop this summer

[Chad Hummel]

Hey guys, I'm new here and I was just looking for any advice about the shop I'm planning on starting in a few weeks.

I'm going off of the 12'x16' shed plans from Construct101.com. I'm going with this size as 200sq feet is the limit without getting a permit, and talking with some neighbors, the area I live in just sounds like more of a hassle than it's worth. I can get by and keep some of the larger tools in the garage.

Instead of doing a wood floor I'm going to pour a concrete slab. My yard currently has a about a 1' slope, so my plan is to start in the middle, scoop up the high side(renting a skid steer) and use it to fill in the low side, to level and flatten, then cover with 2 inches of gravel for the concrete base.

I will be running 220v out to it using 6-3 awg direct burial wire (buried 18" with trencher) with a 40a breaker and a subpanel. I also plan on insulating the entire thing with fiberglass and then finishing the walls with either plywood, osb or drywall. I'd like to do wood as it'll be easier to screw/nail to, but cost may also play a factor.

Is there anything I'm missing or things I should change? I'm a pretty handy guy and by no means am I new to this. My neighbor is a licensed electrician and will help with that part of it. Also, if it matters, I live in Oregon where all it does is rain.

Any help or advice would be awesome. Thanks!

 

[Robert Morse]

Chad, welcome to the forum. 

If you can swing increasing the interior height to at least 8', or 8'6", you'd be able to flip lumber end for end: I broke the fluorescent lights in  my last garage more than once...   Another thing to check would be drainage around the building, if you're taking some of the high side out, make sure water can drain around the shop properly.  If I had the option, I think I'd be inclined to stick with a wood floor if I could, so much more comfortable to stand on.  One last thing: we're in Seattle (so wet like Oregon), and my shop isn't done yet, but humidity in winter is a HUGE issue for us: I'd make sure you have a plan to control it, either with active ventilation of some kind, and/or heat, at least enough to keep the inside above the dew point.

Best of luck, and post pictures once you start. 

[RichardA]

Do like they do in the larger cities..................build up!  Gives storage, you can put a dust collector up high, it's just a PITA to empty.

[Chad Hummel]

Thanks Robert. 

22 minutes ago, Robert Morse said:

If you can swing increasing the interior height to at least 8', or 8'6"

I'm not sure about raising the ceiling height. I just double checked the city code and now I'm not sure about the whole thing. The plans make the peak at 12', and code says 10', so that sucks. My neighbor just build his at 16' and says he didn't get a permit, so I'm not sure if I should worry. If not then yes, raising the ceiling is a good call.

23 minutes ago, Robert Morse said:

Another thing to check would be drainage around the building

I thought about the drainage issue as well. I have a landscaper friend coming over later this week to talk about it. The main reason I wanted a slab is just for the longevity of it. I'm not too worried about the comfort standpoint, I work on concrete and steel grate all night so I don't really notice it anymore. If removing from the high side is a bad idea, I have a ton of patio/retaining wall stones left over from the previous owner, I may just get some fill dirt and raise up the low side. 

23 minutes ago, Robert Morse said:

humidity in winter is a HUGE issue for us: I'd make sure you have a plan to control it, either with active ventilation of some kind,

I was planning on a vent fan. I saw my crappy metal shed get tons of moisture buildup over this past winter so I know I need to address that.

 Thank you!

[Chad Hummel]

7 minutes ago, RichardA said:

Do like they do in the larger cities..................build up!  Gives storage, you can put a dust collector up high, it's just a PITA to empty.

Current city code without a permit is 10'. This is going to be 12' so I'm already pushing it. If I end up needing a permit then yes, I will go taller.

[Chet]

53 minutes ago, Chad Hummel said:

and use it to fill in the low side, to level and flatten, then cover with 2 inches of gravel for the concrete base.

 

53 minutes ago, Chad Hummel said:

I live in Oregon where all it does is rain.

 

Make sure that you compact the soil you move properly so that it doesn't settle after you pour your concrete and crack the slab right away especially with the high mostiure content you get in Oregon.

[Woodenskye]

If you need the permit for the height, you might as well get a bigger shop permitted.

[Chet]

Also if it were me I would use T1-11 on the walls.  looks nicer then ply and definitely nicer then OSB.  If you end up doing dry wall you could always look into doing a french cleat system for storing on the walls.

[Chestnut]

Wow 10 foot limit how does the code word that? Does it say 10 feet from adjacent ground elevation to peak or does its say the max wall height? Wording is key.

I'd look into the permit process if you bring in plans for a shed that isn't that much larger than their minimum they may not look into it all that much. City's can be a crap shoot between helpful and nice or grumpy old codgers.

[Chad Hummel]

9 minutes ago, Woodenskye said:

If you need the permit for the height, you might as well get a bigger shop permitted.

waiting for a callback from city planning. Cost if also an issue. If the peak roof does not work I may go for a slanted roof. Less storage but it may give me a taller ceiling. If a permit is ultimately required, then yes,  a bigger shop indeed.

[Chad Hummel]

3 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Wow 10 foot limit how does the code word that? Does it say 10 feet from adjacent ground elevation to peak or does its say the max wall height? Wording is key.

I'd look into the permit process if you bring in plans for a shed that isn't that much larger than their minimum they may not look into it all that much. City's can be a crap shoot between helpful and nice or grumpy old codgers.

yeah, i just talked to a someone at the city planning office, and she couldn't give me a good answer, so I'm waiting a call back from an actual city planner. My neighbor just build his to 16' and said he didn't get a permit, but his is also a little hidden, mine would be easily view-able the second you pull into our neighborhood.

[Keggers]

I live on the side of a hill. When I built my shop the engineer said I'd be smart to build up the grade instead of cutting out the side of the hill. That way I could pour a solid concrete foundation. I had several truck loads of good ole Missouri clay delivered and the guy doing the earth work ran over it many times with his dozer to pack it.  Doing it this way solved my drainage issues. 

I used keyways ( I think that's what they are called) so I could control where the concrete floor cracked with expansion and contraction.

There's so much that goes into building a shop and many ways to get it done. You'll see many different opinions on how to do it. I can't say I did mine the best way possible but it's how I did it.

+1 on the high ceilings if you can do it. Mine are 10 feet high. No worries about swinging boards around. I too have no problem with an all concrete floor.

 

Good luck!

[wdwerker]

We call the concrete joints " control joints". 

[Chad Hummel]

Finally got back from the city. the 10' rule is for the top plate, not the overall height, so I think I'm good. 

[wdwerker]

I bet 10' is measured from the footing, confirm 10' from where to the top plate. A scissors truss roof would improve the headroom for swinging boards around. You don't have to do it immediately but insulation and interior wall & ceiling sheathing would be a good idea.

[Chestnut]

Oh that's way more reasonably and a lot harder to measure after it's built. I'd do 9 or even 10 foot walls if that's the case and the scissor truss like Steve mentioned. Might need a ladder to use it but all that vertical space is valuable if your footprint is going to be limited to 200 sq ft

[Coop]

Just my $.02 but a shop should be considered a long term investment, built as I wanted and can afford. If a permit is required to accomplish this, then it’s money and hassle well spent. You’ll kick yourself in the butt later on , otherwise. 

[Jim DaddyO]

Use standard 8' lumber for your walls but use a one course of concrete block on the slab (except where the doors are), and build on top of the block.  That way you get a higher ceiling and your wood framing and such are well above grade.  Put a gasket between anywhere wood and concrete touch (PT lumber for bottom plates helps too).

[pkinneb]

Lot's of good advice here. I would consider going with a wood floor as mentioned earlier it will save you the expense of adding rubber floors because your back hurts from standing on concrete all day   

[Coop]

13 minutes ago, Jim DaddyO said:

Use standard 8' lumber for your walls but use a one course of concrete block on the slab (except where the doors are), and build on top of the block.  That way you get a higher ceiling and your wood framing and such are well above grade.  Put a gasket between anywhere wood and concrete touch (PT lumber for bottom plates helps too).

Jim, not that I will ever do this, but for others that might consider it, is mortar the only thing that attaches the concrete block to the slab? When you say concrete block, do you mean solid or the ones walls that are made of with the hollow areas? And if the latter, how to attach the bottom plate to it? 

[Jim DaddyO]

55 minutes ago, K Cooper said:

Jim, not that I will ever do this, but for others that might consider it, is mortar the only thing that attaches the concrete block to the slab? When you say concrete block, do you mean solid or the ones walls that are made of with the hollow areas? And if the latter, how to attach the bottom plate to it? 

You can build up a curb on the slab and have it poured.  Anchor bolts and block.  I would consult someone who does block foundations (if they are still a thing) or a brick layer if going with block to ensure the right material.  Hiring out a single row can't be that expensive too.  I have never done it, but have seen it done, and was given the reasons for doing it in my previous post.  Mostly to keep the wood up off the ground.

[Larry Moore]

If you are running the electric from a panel in your house I would bury a six inch pvc pipe as a chase.

[Chad Hummel]

1 hour ago, Larry Moore said:

If you are running the electric from a panel in your house I would bury a six inch pvc pipe as a chase.

i was going to run 1 1/2" conduit for the buried portion. would this be in addition to that?

[Jim DaddyO]

5 hours ago, Chad Hummel said:

i was going to run 1 1/2" conduit for the buried portion. would this be in addition to that?

I don't know what the regulations are where you are.  Here, electrical work is a separate entity requiring it's own permit.  Even if the rest of the build does not need one, you still need a permit.  I would recommend getting that permit and making sure you follow the regulations.  The type of conduit (I think sched. 40 below ground and sched. 80 above here, not sure which is why I am hiring this out on my own build, or at least consulting), wire size, etc. will be specified.  This may be an important issue later when it comes to insurance, liability, etc.  If nothing else, cover yourself (legally) in this area.  It will also effect the resale value of your place if not done and inspected to code.  That stamp on the permit could save you a lot in the future.

[Tpt life]

6” is large. I am not arguing, but am not used to seeing that. I am not used to triple 2” or double 3-4”. The idea is to make it easy for any future pull you want to make. Since water and electric and data all often want to be in separate conduits, base your chase on the likelihood of adding any of those items down the road. Leaving twice the length of the chase in pulling twine anchored to either end will make pulling things easier later.