The ToadStool Table

[treeslayer]

Ross that’s just amazing, and a great job of explaining the process, always amazed at what I learn on here 

 

[pkinneb]

That helps a lot! Thanks for taking the time. 

[Chestnut]

  This project is great. I've always want to try and cooper some thing but never knew how it worked or how they cut the staves. Maybe with this information I could try it.

So if one want to make a barrel the angle stays the same you just make the stave narrower at each end? It still seems like black magic that they can make these barrels water tight.

8 hours ago, RichardA said:

Damn young'un, you're making @chestnut look like a turtle.  You've really knocked this out pretty quick.  Ya done good.

I think He's so fast at it because you TN boys know how to make oak barrels . 

1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

That's a stretch. All I had to do was cut a couple dozen sticks...

You got it done faster than it'd take me to wrap my mind around it.

[Chet]

This is a real cool project in the coopering sense Ross.  This is something I have wanted to do, I have been sketching some small projects to try it on.

Was this something the customer asked for or did they just have an idea and you came up with the technique to give them what they wanted?  Did they want a round table on a round stand and you decided to cooper it?

[RichardA]

12 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

  

I think He's so fast at it because you TN boys know how to make oak barrels . 

We're pretty damn good at emptying them as well.

[wtnhighlander]

3 hours ago, Chet said:

This is a real cool project in the coopering sense Ross.  This is something I have wanted to do, I have been sketching some small projects to try it on.

Was this something the customer asked for or did they just have an idea and you came up with the technique to give them what they wanted?  Did they want a round table on a round stand and you decided to cooper it?

My customer wanted a round table, and I offered up this pedestal design as one that has a beefy appearance, and actually is rather sturdy, but is doable with the gear in my shop. A large, turned pedestal is out of the question, and anything else I came up with was too spindly, or caused interference when seating 4 people. This guy likes stuff that is over-built. Habit from many years of (unsuccessfully) designing steel mill equipment that operators couldn't break.

We conclude THAT is not possible!

[wtnhighlander]

3 hours ago, Chestnut said:

  This project is great. I've always want to try and cooper some thing but never knew how it worked or how they cut the staves. Maybe with this information I could try it.

So if one want to make a barrel the angle stays the same you just make the stave narrower at each end? It still seems like black magic that they can make these barrels water tight.

I dont have my mind wrapped around barrel staves yet. They are wider in the middle than at the ends, so a straight TS sled cut wouldn't work. Seen while still flat, the sides are curved, so I assume a bandsaw is involved. The edge bevels should work the same, though. Radius changes don't affect the angle, only the width. I suppose an arc cutting jig would work, along with adding a tilt to the table to make the bevel.

[wtnhighlander]

One thing I may not have mentioned before. To make these staves work out straight off the saw, my blanks were milled nearly to death. All 24 thicknessed to the same planer setting, also run through on edge to get consistent, clean widths. Straightest grain I could pick from the available stock. And, using a centerline for reference. 

Also, the sled fence should be a little higher than the stock, since the second cut requires that the point of the first cut's bevel reference the fence.

Perhaps the most uniform stack of boards I have ever milled.

[Chestnut]

That is a beautiful stack.

On the barrels because they make them to expand when filled a clean cutting band saw blade may be more than enough. Next time I'm in rockler I'll have to look at the stave blanks they sell for turning projects.

[wtnhighlander]

Drew, there is a barrel stave mill about 2 miles from the house I grew up in. White oak only. Grandpa ised to get rotted sawdust from their waste pile to use in his fishing worm beds.

I always wondered how they bent the staves to barrel shape, until I saw it on an episode of "How It's Made". They drop the ends into a ring, and a hydraulic clamp mechanism scrunches the other ends tight, and bands them. The curved edges of the stave force the middle to bulge as the ends are tightened.

In the old days, I suppose they steam-bent them.

[wtnhighlander]

Interesting observation as I was wrapping the cone in tape this morning. The small gaps that @Coop referenced earlier refused to close up tight as I squeezed the cone together. In fact, the sides of the cone began to bow inward from the pressure, and still the gaps were visible. I examined the interior, thinking that perhaps the edge bevels were off, so the the inner edges met before the outer, but there were visible gaps on the inside, too!

After careful observation, application of a straightedge, I realized that each bevel cut curved ever so slightly inward near the middle of the stave's length. Thos allowed the ends to meet tightly, but left the gaps near the middle. The only cause I can speculate on is that maybe my sled needed the runner to extend farther to keep it straight past the blade in both directions.

Oh, well. Looks like I have a date with my jointer tomorrow. Probably the Stanley, not the Porter-Cable.

[Coop]

Oh Crap! Now I feel like I jinxed you. And I too would have thought that the edge bevels would have been the culprit. Is the gap so great that a rasp wouldn’t be a better tool? 

[Chestnut]

I suppose you couldn't just apply pressure with a strap and pull the center in? I suppose then the side won't be strait it'd bow in at the center....

This is troubling I hope things go well with the stanley jointer. I imagine that your arms will be a lot less tired straightening the edges with the stanly than the porter cable .

[wtnhighlander]

@Coop, I feel like a swipe or two at each end of each stave will do the trick, with less chance of rounding the bevels that would be true with a rasp.

@Chestnut, squeezing was my first try at a fix, until I realized that each stave is wider at the ends than in the middle. I think a little planing will take care of it. 24 times....

[Coop]

1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

 

@Chestnut, squeezing was my first try at a fix, until I realized that each stave is wider at the ends than in the middle. I think a little planing will take care of it. 24 times....

You say each end is wider than the middle. So the angle of the bevel cut is less at the middle than at the ends? They had me emptying trash cans in geometry class so I’m not sure why I’m even in this conversation. 

[wtnhighlander]

8 hours ago, Coop said:

You say each end is wider than the middle. So the angle of the bevel cut is less at the middle than at the ends? They had me emptying trash cans in geometry class so I’m not sure why I’m even in this conversation. 

No, the bevel seems consistent, but the cut has a slight curve, as if the piece moved in an arc as it passed the saw blade. Only about 1/32 at the max,  but two opposing sides make a 1/16 gap. Few swipes with my #7 are taking care of it.

My guess is that my sled runner had some sloppiness, or maybe wasn't long enough to keep the sled moving perfectly straight at the ends.

[wtnhighlander]

I'm halfway through adjusting the staves (only short bursts in the shop), but I believe I discovered the problem.

I think I was over-zealous when I trimmed my sled runner for smooth operation. Shoulder plane is perfect for that, though.

[treeslayer]

Good to see you got it figured out Ross, looks like glue-up pictures are next

[wtnhighlander]

Not quite ready for glue yet, Dave. Minimal time in the shop this weekend, and what time I did spend was used on prototyping a jig to help me shape various circular forms on my table saw.

Version 0.1 looks like this:

There is a lazy susan bearing between the two blocks of plywood at the business end, and the work is attached with carpet tape. The concept seems sound, but the screws I used to attach the pivot points leave a little too much wiggle room. Version 0.2 will use 1/4" x 20 bolts and wing nuts in their place. Also, the lazy susan bearing has a lot more slop that I expected. I think the rotating head will need some re-work. Maybe switch to an embedded ball bearing with a bolt through it to attach the rotating block that will hold the work. I like that better, as the bolt can be removed to free the work piece for test fit without removing the attachment block from the work.  Anyway, my first cut with it this morning produced this:

Still a bit large in diameter, this tapered disk will serve as an alignment 'plug' to hold the small end of the cone round during the glue-up. The large end gets a permanent disk set into a dado around the inside.

Note the angle of taper and amount of curve in it depends on the blade tilt angle and the angle at which the work is presented to the blade.  With my particular setup, the same jig can be flipped around to the opposite side of the fence, and used with my wing-mounted router table as well. This is likely how I will create the bull-nose edge on the cherry table top disk, although if it doesn't work out I can use my hand-held router circle jig. I prefer this new jig, since it doesn't leave a center hole to mar the work.

 

 

[wtnhighlander]

Version 1.9 of the "Spin-a-ma-jig" (c) is complete:

The new bearing system and heavier bolts make it much more stable to use.

Now to make some circles!

[Chet]

6 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

"Spin-a-ma-jig"

Is that the trademark name???

[wtnhighlander]

5 hours ago, Chet said:

Is that the trademark name???

It is now! 

[Mark J]

It's very clever, and I love the name.  But tell me again what part of the table you're making with it?  It can't be the top.

[Coop]

Very clever. I think an operational video is in order. 

[wtnhighlander]

1 hour ago, Mark J said:

It's very clever, and I love the name.  But tell me again what part of the table you're making with it?  It can't be the top.

Currently, making an alignment aid to keep the upper / smaller end of the cone round when I glue it up. That will be removed afterward. I also plan to use this to shape a disk which will fit a dado around the inside of the lower / larger end. That disk will support 3 leveling feet.

22 minutes ago, Coop said:

Very clever. I think an operational video is in order. 

Maybe later I'll have time for video. For now, here is what I used it for tonight.

First, the profile on the disk:

 

And here it is in use:

No glue yet, still some gaps to close between some of the staves.